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Section75 Chargeback

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  • Section75 Chargeback

    Hi, I purchased a watch online using my credit card but unfortunately the watch did not fit well. I tried the watch for couple of minutes and packed it up for return. I got a return authorisation number from the online jewellery company and returned by guaranteed delivery. They received the watch and I spoke with their service manager who said the money cannot be refunded as there are fingerprints and marks on the watch. Itís a shiny stainless steel body and it is bound to get fingerprints. They returned the watch to me. I have notified the card company who has requested me to fill in the details for chargeback. I have competed the online form but it does not outline whether it is section 75 or chargeback. What are my chances of getting the money back. Looking at trust pilot reviews it looks like the jewellery store has used the same tactics on other customers as well. Any advice/suggestion from experience would be much appreciated. Thanks
    Tags: None

  • #2
    as it's a credit card, s75 Consumer Credit Act 1974
    Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now in academia. I do not advise by private message.

    Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks. Would you know what are my chances of getting a refund.

      Comment


      • #4
        (1) Be aware that you can't necessarily be certain that your card provider will process a s75 claim - even if that's specifically what you asked for.

        The reason is that chargeback refunds are recovered from the seller's own bank whereas s75 refunds are, in the first instance, usually paid for by your card provider.

        This means that if you raise a "dispute" with your card provider, they have a vested interest in processing it by default as a chargeback rather than as a s75 claim.

        You can try asking your bank how they are processing it, but I suspect they won't tell you... You'll probably have to wait until you get the outcome of the dispute from your card provider.

        Unlike s75 the chargeback process has no statutary or legal foundation. It's just an agreement between Visa and Mastercard. If a chargeback claim is turned down you can always follow the s75 route, provided the watch cost at least £100.



        (2) Did you return the watch by exercising your right to cancel a distance purchase within 14 days under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)?

        If you did, the jeweller cannot refuse to accept the cancellation because of a few marks and fingerprints. They have to accept your cancellation and pay you a full refund - although it is possible that they could deduct an amount from your refund to reflect any handling of the watch that has reduced its value. I'd suggest that trying it on to test the fit is perfectly acceptable and would not justify any reduced refund. See para 34(9) and (12) of the regulations for details.

        If you cancelled the contract under the regulations linked to above, you should have a very good chance of winning either a chargeback or a s75 claim. If you returned the watch under the jeweller's own returns policy, it might not be so clear cut.

        Tip: When returning an online purchase, always cancel the contrcat by exercising the right given to you by the above regulations - unless the seller's own returns policy gives you a better deal.

        Comment


        • #5
          When you request a Section 75 claim, do it in writing. If it doesn't meet the £100 threshold, then your card provider will consider a Chargeback, instead.

          With these types of claims, the card provider will always try to make things difficult.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Manxman View Post
            (1) Be aware that you can't necessarily be certain that your card provider will process a s75 claim - even if that's specifically what you asked for.

            The reason is that chargeback refunds are recovered from the seller's own bank whereas s75 refunds are, in the first instance, usually paid for by your card provider.

            This means that if you raise a "dispute" with your card provider, they have a vested interest in processing it by default as a chargeback rather than as a s75 claim.

            You can try asking your bank how they are processing it, but I suspect they won't tell you... You'll probably have to wait until you get the outcome of the dispute from your card provider.

            Unlike s75 the chargeback process has no statutary or legal foundation. It's just an agreement between Visa and Mastercard. If a chargeback claim is turned down you can always follow the s75 route, provided the watch cost at least £100.



            (2) Did you return the watch by exercising your right to cancel a distance purchase within 14 days under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)?

            If you did, the jeweller cannot refuse to accept the cancellation because of a few marks and fingerprints. They have to accept your cancellation and pay you a full refund - although it is possible that they could deduct an amount from your refund to reflect any handling of the watch that has reduced its value. I'd suggest that trying it on to test the fit is perfectly acceptable and would not justify any reduced refund. See para 34(9) and (12) of the regulations for details.

            If you cancelled the contract under the regulations linked to above, you should have a very good chance of winning either a chargeback or a s75 claim. If you returned the watch under the jeweller's own returns policy, it might not be so clear cut.

            Tip: When returning an online purchase, always cancel the contrcat by exercising the right given to you by the above regulations - unless the seller's own returns policy gives you a better deal.
            I had to get a return authorisation number from them and I then send it by recorded delivery which they received it the next business day. But as mentioned before they rejected the refund saying there are fingerprints and marks on the watch which I only tried for two minutes. They have emailed me back saying that the money cannot be refunded and they will send the watch back to me. So, I have now received a Royal Mail parcel back from them. I have not opened the parcel. I am not sure what should I be doing. I have filed an online transaction dispute form with Barclays on last Thursday but I still havenít heard back and the transaction still appears on their internet banking portal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by echat11 View Post
              When you request a Section 75 claim, do it in writing. If it doesn't meet the £100 threshold, then your card provider will consider a Chargeback, instead.

              With these types of claims, the card provider will always try to make things difficult.
              It is over three thousand pound. I have submitted a disputed transaction form with Barclays on last Thursday but still no movement

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by auroops View Post

                I had to get a return authorisation number from them and I then send it by recorded delivery which they received it the next business day. But as mentioned before they rejected the refund saying there are fingerprints and marks on the watch which I only tried for two minutes. They have emailed me back saying that the money cannot be refunded and they will send the watch back to me. So, I have now received a Royal Mail parcel back from them. I have not opened the parcel. I am not sure what should I be doing. I have filed an online transaction dispute form with Barclays on last Thursday but I still havenít heard back and the transaction still appears on their internet banking portal.
                OK. We need to know some dates pretty quickly...

                1. What date did you originally take delivery of the watch when you bought it?

                2. What date did you originally contact them to tell them you were returning it?

                Those dates are important as even if you didn't originally cancel the contract as a distance sale, you may still be in time to do so.

                Also, can you either provide a link to their T&Cs or tell us whether their T&Cs inform you of your statutory right to cancel a distance contract under The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk)?

                I wouldn't open the parcel for now.

                Give us the dates I've asked for.

                [Edit: Who is the seller? Are you certain that they are based in the UK and that the contrcat is subject to UK law?]
                Last edited by Manxman; 11th March 2024, 23:34:PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Date received - 1/3/24
                  Date Returned - 2/3/24
                  Date Seller Received the Item - 4/3/24
                  Below is the email received when I requested return of the item and the email which has the return outcome has the link.


                  Hi Arup

                  Thank you for your return request. To return your order, please follow the instructions below:

                  Simply post the item back to the following address. We would recommend sending it back using Royal Mail signed for special delivery service to the following address:

                  FAO Returns - Return Number: R-005073

                  C W Sellors Jura Watches
                  King Street
                  Ashbourne
                  Derbyshire
                  DE6 1EA

                  If you prefer, you can drop the item in one of our stores. For a full list of locations, you can use our Store Locator.

                  Please ensure you include your Return Number.

                  Got a question? You can email us at help@cwsellors.com or call us at 44(0)1335 216 004.


                  -/////-/óóó-

                  Good Morning Arup,

                  Thank you for your recent return and your patience whilst I looked into this for you. After an inspection of your order our Returns Department has identified some signs of wear on the piece. This means we are unable to offer a refund on this occasion. Please find the terms and conditions for returns below.

                  https://www.cwsellors.co.uk/pages/returns

                  As per our Terms and Conditions, all items must be returned in an unworn condition in the original packaging. Due to this, we would be happy to return the piece back to you free of charge.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OP only put the watch on for 2 minutes, repackaged the watch and returned it to the seller the next day.
                    The seller is claiming the watch has signs of wear and tear. Could the watch have been damaged during the return or by the seller after receiving it back?
                    Should OP carefully open the package, check for damage, clean to remove fingerprints and take a few photos of the watch and packaging?
                    If OP ends up having to make a claim, FOS or court, photos showing the new condition of the watch and original packaging may prove very useful

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hi auroops - thanks for the date information. I'll get back to you later today.

                      In the meantime, look at paras 7 - 9 of their terms and conditions, in particular about your legal rights as opposed to their goodwill guarantee.

                      Terms & Conditions (cwsellors.co.uk)

                      Also see my reply to PEZZA54's comment #10

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        They have also emailed me pictures of the watch taken before it was dispatched for the first time and they also taken pictures of the watches when it arrived for refund. Not all the pictures are taken at a similar angle or zoom but comparing them appears that there are no some fingerprint marks which they are using it as an argument. Imagine I go to the shop and try the watch before I buy, itís bound to get fingerprints. There is no absolutely no damage whatsoever. I tried on Friday evening and packed it in Saturday morning for return. Read their reviews
                        https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/cwsellors.com

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pezza54 View Post
                          OP only put the watch on for 2 minutes, repackaged the watch and returned it to the seller the next day.
                          The seller is claiming the watch has signs of wear and tear. Could the watch have been damaged during the return or by the seller after receiving it back?
                          Should OP carefully open the package, check for damage, clean to remove fingerprints and take a few photos of the watch and packaging?
                          If OP ends up having to make a claim, FOS or court, photos showing the new condition of the watch and original packaging may prove very useful
                          I agree

                          So long as the OP has exercised their right to cancel a distance sale under Part 3 of The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013 (legislation.gov.uk), then they are entitled to a full refund unless their handling of the goods has gone "beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods". See para 34(9).

                          An example of such handling is given in para 34(12) as "going beyond the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop."

                          So yes - if the OP only tried the watch on for a few minutes to see how it looked and what sort of fit it was, then I'm sure that would have been allowed in the shop so the OP is legally entitled to a full refund.

                          (All that assumes the OP didn't damage it and he tried to follow their guidance for keeping the watch pristine - "Please note that when trying on a watch at home, we recommend only placing the timepiece on your wrist to see if it suits. This should not involve wearing it for an extended period of time. If there are any signs of wear on the item, it will not be accepted back for a refund or exchange" and "Bronze watches will be supplied with a clear plastic coating on the case and clasp/buckles. This coating must remain on for the purposes of trying on watches at home due to the natural oxidisation which occurs when the metal contacts the skin. Bronze watches which are returned bearing signs of oxidisation will not be accepted for a return or refund")

                          On reflection I also agree with you that it would be a good idea to open the package and examine the watch for signs of damage, and take photographs of it. I'd also take a photo of the unopened package for signs of damage.

                          I wonder if the OP took a photo of the watch before returning it ...

                          I'll post again later today with what I think the OP should do.
                          Last edited by Manxman; 12th March 2024, 12:33:PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by auroops View Post
                            They have also emailed me pictures of the watch taken before it was dispatched for the first time and they also taken pictures of the watches when it arrived for refund. Not all the pictures are taken at a similar angle or zoom but comparing them appears that there are no some fingerprint marks which they are using it as an argument. Imagine I go to the shop and try the watch before I buy, itís bound to get fingerprints. There is no absolutely no damage whatsoever. I tried on Friday evening and packed it in Saturday morning for return. Read their reviews
                            https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/cwsellors.com
                            So long as you exercised your statutory right to cancel I agree - they can't refuse a full refund for some fingerprints.

                            Even if you physically scratched the watch they are only allowed to reduce your refund by an amount equivalent to its loss in value resulting from the scratch

                            I can't believe a few scratches (even if there were any) would reduce a £3000 watch to zero value. Surely it's still worth £2000, or £1000 or even £500. It couldn't lose all its value. [Edited to correct value of watch!]

                            I'll get back with a fuller response later. Your situation is complicated because you may have returned the watch under their goodwill guarantee rather than under the legislation. Also it seems that you've raised a dispute with your bank before exhausting all arguments with the seller.
                            Last edited by Manxman; 12th March 2024, 13:10:PM. Reason: Got watch value wrong!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't think I've ever read such bad reviews
                              Several customers have suffered the same experience as OP
                              One customer took his returned watch to a jewelers who inspected it and said there were no signs that the watch had been worn

                              Comment

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