DVLA Unlicenced Vehicle but no Registration Documents received to SORN

[Larmon01]

Hi
I have been in dispute over an unlicensed vehicle for which I have received a penalty notice.

I recently purchased the vehicle which had out of date registration documents and had not been updated by the latest keeper of the vehicle. I had to apply for new registration documents which I did. This vehicle was off road and I was unable to SORN the vehicle with the old registration documents via their online system and needed the new registration document to do so.

I never received the new documents and could not recall when I sent this off, but assumed they were just taking a while to process this. Then I received a fine for not insuring the vehicle. I rang them immediately and said I had never received the new registration document, so wasn't aware it had been transferred to me as the owner, so hadn't SORN the vehicle. They did this over the phone at the time, processed a request to send new Registration Documents and I asked about challenging this fine which they said I needed to appeal.

I have written a number of letters explaining this; that I didn't have the documents to enable me to SORN. They said that despite this I still committed an offence. The vehicle, since purchase has been sitting in my barn, on private property and has never been used on the road. Their latest letter has stated that they have decided the case should be settled by prosecution and I will receive a summons in due course.

Firstly I was wondering if I have anyway of fighting this and avoiding court. Also I was wondering if this 'out of court settlement' as they refer to the penalty could be deemed as a fine and if that is the case then can I argue this under the Bill of Rights 1689 which confirms that all grants and promises of fines & forfeitures of a particular person before conviction are illegal and void. That only courts can issue fines, not the DVLA.

I have read other cases and I see there is an argument for them having to provide proof I did not send the form, although I did put in writing I did not have the form to send.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks Nicole

[islandgirl]

"can I argue this under the Bill of Rights 1689 which confirms that all grants and promises of fines & forfeitures of a particular person before conviction are illegal and void. That only courts can issue fines, not the DVLA."
No you can't, sorry. That sounds like more of the Freeman on the Land type nonsense.
You can bring all your proof to court and argue your case. Can you prove you sent off for new documents? Certificate of postage for example?
Hopefully someone else will be along to help with more suggestions

[Larmon01]

The new documents were sent when I rang them about the fine. The phone conversation was recordedI could ask for the transcript.

[PallasAthena]

The phone conversation was recorded I could ask for the transcript.

You can ask for a copy of the recorded call via a data protection SAR but you can't ask them to make a transcript of it unless they make transcripts for their own purposes anyway. I doubt DVLA will be routinely making transcripts of phone calls.

[dangar786]

Hi Nicole
i am going through the same thing at the moment.
they are ignoring me even tho my vehicle has been on private land and never on a public road!

[Larmon01]

They have been absolutely unreasonable and all responses appear to be standard letters, not considering the facts. Very frustrating and not sure of best way to tackle. I will ask for a copy of the recorded call at least. Could I also ask if they have evidence the initial reg doc was sent? Do they keep proof of sending?

[Larmon01]

Also I was thinking should I make an affidavit of facts

[PallasAthena]

they are ignoring me even tho my vehicle has been on private land and never on a public road!

Had you made a SORN declaration? A vehicle on private land has to be taxed unless and until you have made a SORN declaration.

[des8]

If you purchase a vehicle without documents, you the purchaser and new owner need to apply for SORN immediately.
As you don't have registration document you apply using V62 form, which includes instructions to apply for SORN on Form V890 at the same time.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...ertificate.pdf
https://assets.publishing.service.go...tification.pdf

If you don't follow instructions (which IMO aren't really well publicised) you will find arguing with DVLA pointless and you will be in court. How that goes depends on what side of the bed the magistrates got out (pace islandgirl )

[islandgirl]

You know I love you des8
Worst case scenario fines in court...

No excise licence	L3 or five times annual duty, whichever is greater	A (1-3 months unpaid) B (4-6 months unpaid) C (7-12 months unpaid)	Add duty lost

Thes are the potential fines - a L3 maximum fine is £1000 - starting point is on right hand side and depends on how long unpaid (a is 50% of weekly income, B 100% and C 150%)

It is for you to prove you did post the documents not for the court to prove...

If you go to court you can explain the situation - most mags don't bite, not even me. You could also engage a solicitor if you are not confident to explain in a strange setting but if you do act for yourself the legal advisors are very good at putting you at ease. You should bring all proof with you of anything which you intend to bring up in court.