Civil Enforcement PCN

[Ijjou]

Hi Everyone,

I'm here to write as I'm desperate and don't know exactly what to do with my specific situation.
I have been searching similar threads but couldn't find anything that is exactly like mine.

1. I never received a letter with the original Parking Charge Notice.
2. The first letter I received was a reminder notification issued on 23/08/2023, stating that the PCN was issued on 03/08/2023 and the circumstances stated were “Payment not made in accordance with notified terms”.
3. This means I had no way to appeal as the 28 days of the PCN issue date had already lapsed when I received the reminder.
4. The parking space is owned by a private and none of the shop around it has to do with it (eg Sainsbury's, and other shops)
5. The alleged contravention took place at: 237-259 Greenwich High Road, London and is operated by Civil Enforcement.
6. I was not the driver of the car at the time of the alleged contravention do I have to name the driver? The amount now due is £100
7. Has anyone come anything similar like this in the past?

I am a bit overwhelmed and not sure what I can do from here.

I really appreciate anyone is taking the time to read.

Many thanks!

[des8]

Do not identify the driver.

Send CEL a "subject Access Request" (https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/) explaining you have not received the initial PCN and require a copy.

[Ijjou]

Thank you DES8. quick question please. can a SAR be emailed?

[Ijjou]

I hope this looks fine before emailing it to the fleecers:
Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself.
I have just received your invoice and or reminder notification dated ………. However, you fail to send me the original invoice and or notice to keeper in which I require a copy.
If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity, please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.
If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.
Yours faithfully
xxxxx

[des8]

I hope this looks fine before emailing it to the fleecers:
Please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself.
I have just received your invoice and or reminder notification dated ………. However, I did not receive the original invoice and or notice to keeper of which I require a copy.
[IAs you sent me a reminder notice i assume you will not need any more data from me to confirm my identity,It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month.[/I]
If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.
Yours faithfully
xxxxx

Have suggested amendments in red.
Certainly send by email, but I would still confirm with a hard copy.

[Ijjou]

thanks DES8 sorry for late reply. I really appreciate the above input. I was busy with my best friend hospital chemotherapy appointment struggling to get their affairs in order. Meanwhile while on checking my spam folder this evening, I bumped into civil enforcement reply stating that their request is now complete.They've also attached data requested to the email which was received on 06/09/2023 so what now?

[des8]

So post up the NTK which you have now received.
First remove identifying details, but leave in dates and times.

we can then check that the notice com[plies with the regulations of PoFA 2012 schedule 4

[Ijjou]

I I thought the postal NTK must be received by day 14 from when it was issued?

[des8]

The NTK is deemed "delivered ..... on the second working day after the day on which it is posted" unless the contrary is proved.
As it was issued within the period it will be nigh impossible to prove it was not delivered.

The NTK appears to be without error.

I have looked at the site on Google Earth, and assuming I reached the right park, the signage might be regarded as inadequate.
It seems there is only one sign at the entrance, and it is angled such that if approaching with the park on the left it might be missed taking into account the need to take extra care crossing the footpath (many pedestrians!) to enter the park.
Inside the park I could only see two small notices, so these could be missed.
That scenario would need checking out.

Also I wonder about the wording on the signs as sometimes that is insufficient.

Hardly worth appealing the charge as it most likely to be refused even if you were in time.

CE will most likely pass the "debt" to a collection firm DCBL who can be ignored as they have no power.
Eventually it will end up with DCBLegal, who are solicitors and will proceed to a court claim.
At that point you could ,if you wish, dispute the charge in court.
However there is no certainty you would be successful, and besides the stress if you lost you would incur certain limited costs

[Ijjou]

Perhaps buying time and ignoring their letters may pay off at the end. How much time do they have before bring in a claim?

[des8]

6 years

[Ijjou]

Thanks for your response des8 . I am still not sure on how to go about this. I know there is no easy way to check when the NTK was posted. However, the letter doesn't specify a grace period if there is any???. Meanwhile I suppose my time has run out therefore, can I ask how to prove that I was not the driver? Do I need to comply with any regulations to transfer liability?
Thank you for your constant support on this matter.

[des8]

You were not the driver at the time of the incident.
You are under no obligation to name the driver, but if you do not CE can transfer liability for the charge to you the keeper.
If you do give them the driver's name and address they must cease chasing you and instead pursue the driver.
Even if you can prove you were not the driver at the time liability can be transferred to you the keeper if the parking company do not know the driver's identity.

As the vehicle was in the park for 15-16 minutes the application of a 10 minute grace period would unlikely provide a defence.

[Ijjou]

I appreciate the pointers so far Des8. Your description of signage above is dead right., the wording on the first sign at the entrance looks scruffy meaning that someone have tried to remove some of the sign writings.
I also get what you r saying in relation to naming the driver at this moment in time and the difficulty in establishing the driver's identity at this stage. Does this mean that the keeper is not liable to pay the charge only the driver can now be pursued. Hence, I haven't appealed therefore they do not know who was driving as anyone who has a valid motor insurance is able to drive the car!

[des8]

If they do not know the driver's identity they can transfer liability for the charge to the keeper

To transfer liability they have to follow the regulations.
As they sometimes get that wrong, the advice is not to identify the driver.

In your case they have not made a mistake so liability is transferred.
You have a possible defence regarding the signage.

You could now (or later) tell them the driver's identity.
They would then have to cease pursuing you.
The driver would then receive a claim for the original parking charge, including the discount for prompt payment
He could then dispute the claim on the basis of inadequate signage (which may or may not be successful in court)