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Received a solicitor's letter and a court claim whilst away from home

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  • Received a solicitor's letter and a court claim whilst away from home

    We were away for a few months and when I came back I found both a 'Notice of Claim Issue' dated 12 July 2023 from Overdales Solicitors and a Claim Form from the Northampton County Court dated 6 July 2023. We returned late on the 26th and opened the letters a day or so later so we missed the 5 days plus 14 days window to respond (25 July).

    Early on the 28th July we left for a long-planned holiday and don't plan to return until 13 or 14 August.

    I acknowledged the claim online late last week and asked for the 28 days to defend and counterclaim, which will expire (midnight?) this Tuesday 8 August.

    Because we are away I don't have access to the evidence to support my case including dates and amounts of payments going back over ten years.

    Received a claim? Yes
    Issue Date: 6 July 2023
    Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: Yes
    Total Amount Claimed : ( approximately please do NOT use EXACT figure given on the claim form, round up to next £100 or £1000) £1,000
    Claimant’s Name: Lowell Portfolio Limited
    Solicitors Firm: Overdales Solicitors
    Original Creditor: Vodafone
    Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft) : One-year Mobile phone contract
    Particulars of Claim: ( Please type out in full excluding names/account numbers/exact amounts ):
    The claim is for the sum of £X due by the Defendant under a Vodafone account with an account reference of 999999999
    The Defendant failed to maintain contractual payments required under the terms of the account agreement.
    The debt was legally assigned to the claimant on 01-09-22, notice of which has been given to the defendant.
    The claim includes statutory interest under S.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue of these proceedings in the sum of £Y
    The Claimant claims the sum of £Z

    Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): No as I have discussed it with Vodafone in 2021 before cancelling their direct debit
    List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ): Letter of 28 October 2021 to Vodafone telling them:
    I had cancelled the contract in April 2011
    They had refused to provide me with a copy of the contract or any bills since their last one on July 2011
    I had cancelled the direct debit and claimed a refund as they had neither neither billed me or notified me of changes to their bills contrary to the terms of their Direct Debit

    Any Other Information or Background Details:
    From April or May 2010 I had a contract with Vodafone, taken out via local Carphone Warehouse shop in order to solve the problem of no reception at home from other providers. Carphone Warehouse
    In or around April 2011 I called Vodafone and told them I wanted to terminate the account as soon as possible as I wasn't getting any mobile reception. They told me the account had another month or two to run. I said in that case I wanted to terminate it then. I switched to another provider and never used the sim card again.
    13 July 2011 I received a bill from Vodafone and nothing since then.
    I presumed they'd closed the contract, but realised much later they had continued to debit our joint account, and at times increasing the monthly amounts
    7 July 2021 I contacted Vodafone by Chat (I have a copy), explained what had happened and asked them to email or post me a copy of their contract and bills which they said they had. The refused to do this and asked me to obtain them by logging onto Vodafones's website which I was unable to do as it requires the sim card for the mobile account.
    I cancelled the Direct Debit shortly afterwards and under the Direct Debit guarantee my bank refunded the direct debit payments going back to the first increase in payment to Vodafone
    14 September 2021 Vodafone wrote asking me to pay the small debt accrued since the DD was cancelled and said they were handing it over to a debt collection agency, Zinc Credit Management
    22 October 2021 our bank credited two sums, around 30% more than the amount of the court claim, to our account as the repayment of the Direct Debit
    28 October 2021 I replied to Vodafone with the above information explaining I had cancelled the contract and they had continued to take payment. Vodafone did not reply
    13 September 2022 Lowells wrote to say they'd taken over the debt. , but the debt was passed to Lowells who called me. I explained it was in dispute with Vodafone and I didn't intend to pay it; Vodafone or Lowells would need to explain the basis of their claim, which hasn't happened. I have had one or more letters from Lowells requesting payment of a claim which is less than the amount of the Direct Debit refund
    16 September 2022 I called Lowells, and explained the history and dispute, lack of billing, evidence of contract to them. I gave them my email address. They said they would discuss it with Vodafone and write back to me about it. I haven't had any further communication from them until their claim.
    They have phoned a number of times and I have asked them to make their points in writing which hasn't happened.
    6 July 2023 Court Claim issued
    12 July 2023 Letter from Overdales Solicitors confirming court claim


    As I'm away, I don't have access to the detailed information of payment dates and amounts needed to calculate my potential counterclaim for payments after the contract ended in 2011. Can I delay the process until I return?

    Any other thoughts on this saga?

    Thanks!

    Last edited by Giallograle; 6th August 2023, 13:49:PM. Reason: Additional information
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Send Overdales an email explaining the position. Ask them to agree a 28 day extension of time for you to file your Defence.
    Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

    Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

    Comment


    • #3
      atticus Thanks!

      ​​​​​​​What could I do if they decline, and I don't file my counterclaim in the time limit?

      Comment


      • #4
        If your request is not agreed, you can make an application to the court for additional time.

        In such an event may do better to put in a defence, making clear the circumstances in which you are writing it, and stating that you will be providing further details once you have returned home.
        Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

        Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks! I have requested a 28-day extension.

          ​​​

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi, The hearing is set for 8 December so I need to get my witness statement and evidence to the court tomorrow.

            I have Lowell's witness statement, in which they say, no doubt correctly, that when they bought the debt from Vodafone they "acquired the benefit and not the burden associated with the Agreement. It is trite that only benefit, and not burden, can pass with legal assignment." So my attempt to counterclaim from Lowells appears to have been pointless.

            We agree I had a contract with Vodafone; Lowells say Vodafone don't have a copy, although Vodafone told me they did (I have a copy of this chat conversation). The central issue is whether or not I cancelled the contract by phone call to Vodafone in April 2011 (it still had a month or two to run). Vodafone stopped sending bills a couple of months afterwards; I didn't notice that they were continuing to debit our joint account as my wife used that account. Until she noticed in 2021.

            Overdales/Lowells have put me to strict proof that I cancelled the contract; so it's my word against theirs.
            11. The Defendant raised a dispute with the Claimant on 16 September 2022. The Claimant took
            reasonable steps to investigate the Defendant’s dispute with the Assignor. The Assignor confirmed:
            11.1 They do not have a record of the Defendant requesting a cancellation of the Agreement.
            11.2 On 7 July 2021 a person now believed to be the Defendant attempted to contact the Assignor
            via online chat. However, the Defendant failed to pass security checks therefore no further
            action was taken, and the account remained active.
            11.3 The Defendant’s service was disconnected on 9 November 2021
            11.4 There were no disputes raised on the account as the Defendant was unable to pass DPA.
            11.5 The Defendant did not notify the Assignor of any signal issues at his home.
            11.6 However, the Defendant instructed his bank to reverse the sum of £708.16, prior payments
            pursuant to the Direct Debit Guarantee, as shown by the payment revers al debit at 8
            November 2021 in the bills exhibited at (“FA4”). The unpaid balance therefore relates to
            invoices from 7 April 2016.
            I need to file original evidence and my witness statement with the court tomorrow. I presume this means the original documents I received; copies not allowed?

            Evidence
            1. Since I can't claim overpayment from Lowell's, my bank statements, showing my payments, don't seem to be relevant?
            2. The limited number of bills I originally received from Vodafone? Does it help to say here they are, this is all I got until September 2021 (Lowells have filed those)
            3. A copy online chat with Vodafone in which they say they have a copy of my contract?
            4. Bank account evidence that I switched to O2 - statement showing first payment to O2 in May 2010?
            5. Copy of my letter to Vodafone of October 2021 - in response to a claim for an unpaid bill after I ended the direct debit - "On or around April 2011 I walked 260m down the road and called you to terminate my account because of the poor mobile signal. I told you I wanted to terminate the account as soon as possible." Vodafone didn't reply to dispute what I said.
            6. Note that I terminated the contract in 2010 rather than 2011 as I stated above and in my defence statement
            7. Overdales statement:
              The Defendant failed to respond to any of the Claimant’s correspondence requesting payment of the outstanding debt or to raise any disputes
              I have my handwritten note from a September 2022 call to Lowell's in which I explained the dispute and Lowells said they would speak to Vodafone and reply in writing, which they didn't.
            8. Witness statement from my wife explaining why the direct debit wasn't noticed earlier? I only gave myself as a witness in the pre-trial documents.
            Would appreciate any advice or thoughts on the above.

            Thanks

            J
            Last edited by Giallograle; 27th November 2023, 17:50:PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              I have Lowell's witness statement, in which they say, no doubt correctly, that when they bought the debt from Vodafone they "acquired the benefit and not the burden associated with the Agreement. It is trite that only benefit, and not burden, can pass with legal assignment." So my attempt to counterclaim from Lowells appears to have been pointless.

              That might be the case, pursue Vodafone for your overpayments, but the limitation act might go against you.

              We agree I had a contract with Vodafone; Lowells say Vodafone don't have a copy, although Vodafone told me they did (I have a copy of this chat conversation).

              There must of been Terms and Conditions, they should provide them, because those Terms and Conditions apply to the conduct of the account. How would you know if what they are saying and doing is correct.

              The central issue is whether or not I cancelled the contract by phone call to Vodafone in April 2011 (it still had a month or two to run). Vodafone stopped sending bills a couple of months afterwards; I didn't notice that they were continuing to debit our joint account as my wife used that account. Until she noticed in 2021.

              Lowells say you failed DPA checks, but has Lowells explained why you failed them? Normally companies have more then one protocol to ascertain identity, so if you fail e.g. passcode etc, they have back up questions etc. So you need to use that argument. So you didn't fail, they didn't want to help because it's not in their interest to help you cancel account. Customer Retention etc. So it's stacked against you.

              Overdales/Lowells have put me to strict proof that I cancelled the contract; so it's my word against theirs.
              11. The Defendant raised a dispute with the Claimant on 16 September 2022. The Claimant took
              reasonable steps to investigate the Defendant’s dispute with the Assignor. The Assignor confirmed:
              11.1 They do not have a record of the Defendant requesting a cancellation of the Agreement.
              11.2 On 7 July 2021 a person now believed to be the Defendant attempted to contact the Assignor
              via online chat. However, the Defendant failed to pass security checks therefore no further
              action was taken, and the account remained active.
              11.3 The Defendant’s service was disconnected on 9 November 2021
              11.4 There were no disputes raised on the account as the Defendant was unable to pass DPA.
              11.5 The Defendant did not notify the Assignor of any signal issues at his home.
              11.6 However, the Defendant instructed his bank to reverse the sum of £708.16, prior payments
              pursuant to the Direct Debit Guarantee, as shown by the payment revers al debit at 8
              November 2021 in the bills exhibited at (“FA4”). The unpaid balance therefore relates to
              invoices from 7 April 2016.
              I need to file original evidence and my witness statement with the court tomorrow. I presume this means the original documents I received; copies not allowed?

              Take original's with you, just in case the judge wants to take a look., in your evidence 'bundle' will be copies, but remember to send their solicitors a copy of your 'bundle'. Ask their solicitors if you can email the 'bundle' to them.

              Evidence
              1. Since I can't claim overpayment from Lowell's, my bank statements, showing my payments, don't seem to be relevant?
              Pursue Vodafone.
              1. The limited number of bills I originally received from Vodafone? Does it help to say here they are, this is all I got until September 2021 (Lowells have filed those)
              You can point that out, so you lost tract of the account after you attempted to cancel.
              1. A copy online chat with Vodafone in which they say they have a copy of my contract?
              They should have Terms and Conditions, my post above.
              1. Bank account evidence that I switched to O2 - statement showing first payment to O2 in May 2010?
              Yes show the Court that.
              1. Copy of my letter to Vodafone of October 2021 - in response to a claim for an unpaid bill after I ended the direct debit - "On or around April 2011 I walked 260m down the road and called you to terminate my account because of the poor mobile signal. I told you I wanted to terminate the account as soon as possible." Vodafone didn't reply to dispute what I said
              Yes show / tell the Court that.
              1. Note that I terminated the contract in 2010 rather than 2011 as I stated above and in my defence statement
              Point that out to the Court.
              1. Overdales statement:
                The Defendant failed to respond to any of the Claimant’s correspondence requesting payment of the outstanding debt or to raise any disputes
                I have my handwritten note from a September 2022 call to Lowell's in which I explained the dispute and Lowells said they would speak to Vodafone and reply in writing, which they didn't.
              Point that out to the Court.
              1. Witness statement from my wife explaining why the direct debit wasn't noticed earlier? I only gave myself as a witness in the pre-trial documents.
              I don't think they will allow that, but include it anyway. Providing the Court and their solicitors get a copy.

              Comment


              • #8
                An assignee can have no better claim than the person who made the assignment. Surely you can raise the overpayments as a defence by way of set-off to reduce or possibly extinguish the claim, even if you cannot counterclaim against the assignee for payment of any balance in your favour.
                Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

                Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks echat11 and again atticus.

                  We actually recovered a significant proportion of our direct debit payments via the bank - Vodafone hadn't notified any changes in amount - which is the bulk of what Lowells are claiming.

                  However, having checked carefully, I have no record of the mobile number they associate with the contract in their witness statement - first time I've seen it - and I don't agree the dates. So I'm going to put them to strict proof of the contract, which apparently they don't have.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've filed my defence, statement and evidence. Hearing is on 8th.

                    Their evidence of the contract, and arrears, is that:
                    • I paid a direct debit for many years.
                    • Vodafone say we had a contract.
                    • Vodafone have recently sent me a bill for part of the sum repaid by the bank under the DD mandate
                    There's no disagreement that Vodafone took a direct debit for many years, much of which was repaid by our bank under the terms of the DD mandate as Vodafone didn't notify me of any changes to their monthly charge.

                    However the printout of the online Chat conversation with Vodafone - included in my evidence - shows that the mobile number for my account which I gave Vodafone before we proceeded to discuss the contract and billing issues is not the same one that Overdales associate with the contract and arrears. It is from an earlier date than I'd estimated from the number I was looking at.

                    I included the following in my witness statement:
                    11. I do not recognise the mobile number 07825093964 which the Claimant cites under
                    Vodafone’s contract and I have not used it. The Claimant has not previously mentioned this
                    number.
                    12. The 2009 date of the contract which the Claimant cites does not match the 2010 date of my
                    purchase of a Vodafone sim card. The Claimant has not previously mentioned this date.
                    13. The Claimant has not provided evidence of the contract to which they refer, or the the
                    amounts they claim under this contract and I put them to strict proof.
                    Is this sufficient to oblige Overdales/Lowell to provide a copy of the contract or other evidence to support their case, which they say they cannot do? And does this weaken their case?
                    Last edited by Giallograle; 2nd December 2023, 11:22:AM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you want the claimant to provide documents that may prove its case? Isn't it going to be sufficient to say that you have asked?
                      Lawyer (solicitor) - retired from practice, now supervising solicitor in a university law clinic. I do not advise by private message.

                      Litigants in Person should download and read this: https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/..._in_Person.pdf

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        You could send Vodafone a Subject Access Request, see what they send back, although they only have to retain information for 6 years, so I doubt you will get anything useful back.

                        https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...ccess-request/

                        Comment

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