I defaulted on a credit card, need advice on what to do next.....

[Alacoque]

Thanks so much. Since I don't truly understand the implications of contacting the ICO or the FOS or lodging a formal complaint with the creditor (not the DCA?) I think I will wait to see what the DCA does next.

Thanks again for the advice, much appreciated....

[Alacoque]

Apologies in advance for the density of this post but I'm trying to process the DCA SAR response as I go. Lots of boring detail.

Two letters recently arrived from the DCA:

1. A template 'we've not been able to contact you' letter. In fact, they know they've been able to reach me because I've written to them and they’ve responded to: a CCA request, a SAR letter and a follow up SAR letter. Their letter states 'failure to contact us will lead to the closure of your account.....and our client may decide to assign your case to a solicitor to recover sums due through legal proceedings.......a county court claim may be issued.....etc.’ Should I reply to this?

2. A response to my SAR, dated a day earlier than the above letter. The DCA sent it 'Signed For'. But I didn't sign for it, the postman must have (?!).

Some background: my first SAR was sent by First Class post on the same day as my CCA, which was sent ‘Signed For'. The DCA replied to the CCA with an unsigned 15 page 'agreement' within the prescribed time period. The covering letter was a bit ambiguous: ‘... in respect to your request for a copy of the the original agreement for the account.....Please see attached the documentation provided by our client....'. Is 'documentation' the same as a 'copy of the original agreement' or am I being pedantic? Also, please see the mention of the credit agreement in the SAR response below - the DCA refers me back to the Credit Card company for a copy of the agreement.

The DCA continued to harass me by email, text and phone calls so I sent another letter 21 days after the CCA and SAR and again requested that communication to be only via post and I also enclosed a copy of the original SAR letter. The calling, texting emailing stopped.

The covering letter from the DCA re the SAR includes this 'You state in your letter dated X that you had previously requested a SAR via post on Y. Unfortunately, we do not have a record of this being received.....' In other words, they're denying receipt of the original SAR so their response can be within the 30 day limit by responding to the copy SAR I re-sent. In the docs enclosed, this re-sent letter is stamped by the DCA as arriving 6 days after I sent it First Class post (!). Also, BOTH copies (presumably inadvertently) of the original and the re-sent SARs are included in the enclosures - the DCA DID receive the original SAR. But they'd be out of the 30 day limit if they responded to the original SAR. Note also this line from the letter: ‘As we are not the original creditor, we do not hold copies of your original agreement. Please contact Credit Card directly on Phone Number if you require further information on this’. What was the ‘documentation’ the DCA sent to me in response to my CCA (as in para 5 above)? Should I send a CCA request to the original creditor? Shouldn’t the CCA have the agreement if it’s chasing the debt?

And the DCA response to my SAR includes these documents:

all my letters to them and a Royal Mail proof of delivery of my CCA request - though it’s on the reverse of the SAR I sent First Class on the same day, the one the DCA denies receiving

list of facts about the credit card account (names, dates, amounts, etc.) on one page

list of ‘Account Activity’ over 1.5 pages, detailing dates of calls, emails, letters to me and from me. It fails to mention the accurate date or the receipt of the CCA request (despite enclosing Royal Mail Proof of Delivery for it). It mentions ‘£1 payment to DCA’ 12 days after the CCA and £1 fee was received. The CCA letter itself is stamped by the DCA as being received 17 days later than it was. There are other errors regarding letters I sent, especially in terms of dates received and ‘date received’ DCA stamps on the letters.

Do I need to respond to the DCA and point out their errors?

Sorry, this is such an awful headache to read (I did try to simplify it) and major thanks to anyone who can advise me.

[echat11]

1. A template 'we've not been able to contact you' letter. In fact, they know they've been able to reach me because I've written to them and they’ve responded to: a CCA request, a SAR letter and a follow up SAR letter. Their letter states 'failure to contact us will lead to the closure of your account.....and our client may decide to assign your case to a solicitor to recover sums due through legal proceedings.......a county court claim may be issued.....etc.’ Should I reply to this?

I would, make sure you get Proof of Postage. They are just being typical DCA's.

2. A response to my SAR, dated a day earlier than the above letter. The DCA sent it 'Signed For'. But I didn't sign for it, the postman must have (?!).

Some background: my first SAR was sent by First Class post on the same day as my CCA, which was sent ‘Signed For'. The DCA replied to the CCA with an unsigned 15 page 'agreement' within the prescribed time period. The covering letter was a bit ambiguous: ‘... in respect to your request for a copy of the the original agreement for the account.....Please see attached the documentation provided by our client....'. Is 'documentation' the same as a 'copy of the original agreement' or am I being pedantic? Also, please see the mention of the credit agreement in the SAR response below - the DCA refers me back to the Credit Card company for a copy of the agreement.

Documentation is a general term, agreement is a specific document. If you send a CCA request to the DCA, they can pass it on to the Credit Card Company. The important thing is to get the information you seek.

The DCA continued to harass me by email, text and phone calls so I sent another letter 21 days after the CCA and SAR and again requested that communication to be only via post and I also enclosed a copy of the original SAR letter. The calling, texting emailing stopped.

That's good, don't be scared to make a complaint if they 'harass you'.

The covering letter from the DCA re the SAR includes this 'You state in your letter dated X that you had previously requested a SAR via post on Y. Unfortunately, we do not have a record of this being received.....' In other words, they're denying receipt of the original SAR so their response can be within the 30 day limit by responding to the copy SAR I re-sent. In the docs enclosed, this re-sent letter is stamped by the DCA as arriving 6 days after I sent it First Class post (!). Also, BOTH copies (presumably inadvertently) of the original and the re-sent SARs are included in the enclosures - the DCA DID receive the original SAR. But they'd be out of the 30 day limit if they responded to the original SAR. Note also this line from the letter: ‘As we are not the original creditor, we do not hold copies of your original agreement. Please contact Credit Card directly on Phone Number if you require further information on this’. What was the ‘documentation’ the DCA sent to me in response to my CCA (as in para 5 above)? Should I send a CCA request to the original creditor? Shouldn’t the CCA have the agreement if it’s chasing the debt?

Don't get drawn in by their non compliance with SAR deadlines, if you went to the ICO after 30 days, all they would tell you to do is do what you've done. Yes send a CCA request to the Credit Card Company.

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/hand...ate=2016-03-07

And the DCA response to my SAR includes these documents:

all my letters to them and a Royal Mail proof of delivery of my CCA request - though it’s on the reverse of the SAR I sent First Class on the same day, the one the DCA denies receiving

list of facts about the credit card account (names, dates, amounts, etc.) on one page

list of ‘Account Activity’ over 1.5 pages, detailing dates of calls, emails, letters to me and from me. It fails to mention the accurate date or the receipt of the CCA request (despite enclosing Royal Mail Proof of Delivery for it). It mentions ‘£1 payment to DCA’ 12 days after the CCA and £1 fee was received. The CCA letter itself is stamped by the DCA as being received 17 days later than it was. There are other errors regarding letters I sent, especially in terms of dates received and ‘date received’ DCA stamps on the letters.

Do I need to respond to the DCA and point out their errors?

If you feel strongly make a formal complaint in writing, follow their complaints procedure.

Sorry, this is such an awful headache to read (I did try to simplify it) and major thanks to anyone who can advise me.

[Alacoque]

Thanks so much for the clarity.

One last question....should I write to the DCA and let them know I'm sending a CCA to the credit card company, i.e., will that get the DCA to hit the 'pause' button re my 'account' with them?

[echat11]

Thanks so much for the clarity.

One last question....should I write to the DCA and let them know I'm sending a CCA to the credit card company, i.e., will that get the DCA to hit the 'pause' button re my 'account' with them?

It won't do any harm, quote, that they suggested it and you are following their instructions. If they 'hassle' you, pull them up on it, lodge a complaint, they should give you space awaiting the information you have requested. Update the thread, if they decide not to play ball.

[Alacoque]

So, nothing new from the (now previous) DCA, who had tried to pass off random ‘documentation’ as an ‘original agreement’ and then later advised me only the original creditor has a copy and to request it from them.


I duly sent a CCA letter to the creditor 18 business days ago via ‘signed for’ post. No reply yet.

However, the creditor has sent me a letter headed ‘Notice of Referral to External Collections Agency’. The letter also informs me my account has been cancelled (it was months ago) and all future contact should be with this new DCA and ‘if a default has not already been registered and you fail to engage in regular contact about your account…..steps will be taken to register the default.,,,’

Am I correct in guessing this ‘external collections agency’ has bought the debt? If I don’t get a response to the CCA request from the creditor, shall I continue to follow up on it with them?

I have yet to hear from this new agency, but am thinking when I do that I should send them a CCA request and an SAR?

Finally, is the fact the creditor has now switched DCAs indicative of a new, more aggressive strategy?

So many questions, thanks in advance….

[MIKE770]

only bought if you receive (Usually in one envelope) a letter introducing a buyer and a letter from company day they sold it).

no more CCA you already request no DSAR at this stage, slow down sit on hands., no CCA no case. relax and wait.

[echat11]

a) Am I correct in guessing this ‘external collections agency’ has bought the debt?

Not unless they've sent you letters of 'assignment', in the letter it will specify the debt has been sold.

b) If I don’t get a response to the CCA request from the creditor, shall I continue to follow up on it with them?

Yes, good idea, just remind them they haven't responded to your CCA request and they are in breach of the FCA's Guidelines on CCA requests.

c) I have yet to hear from this new agency, but am thinking when I do that I should send them a CCA request and an SAR?

You don't need to send a new request, you merely need to write, that on such and such date you sent a CCA request as per FCA Guidelines, but your request is still outstanding and as such you are minded to lodge a Complaint with the FCA.

d) Finally, is the fact the creditor has now switched DCAs indicative of a new, more aggressive strategy?

Could be, but you are more then a match for them.

[Alacoque]

The letter from the creditor says the amount outstanding is 'payable in full' and the account has been 'transferred' (i.e., not assigned). Will keep an eye out for any 'assigned' language

Thank you so much for the advice and also for the vote of confidence.....equally and massively appreciated.....

[echat11]

The letter from the creditor says the amount outstanding is 'payable in full' and the account has been 'transferred' (i.e., not assigned). Will keep an eye out for any 'assigned' language

Thank you so much for the advice and also for the vote of confidence.....equally and massively appreciated.....

When it's been 'assigned' you normally get two letters, one from the seller and one from the buyer.
Transfer isn't the same thing.

[Alacoque]

Belated thanks to Mike770 for the zen advice!

And thank you ECHAT11 for clarifying the difference between ‘assigned’ and ‘transfer’. It's a minefield of misleading vocabulary!

This is kind of a ’non update’ but I am wondering/worried about the non activity, as though it could be a prelude something…..awful.

No reply from the original Creditor to my CCA request, received by them 26 business days ago. I understand the reply deadline is 30 business days. Sitting tight, no immediate plans to chase.

I received the Creditor’s letter to me advising me of ‘referral to external collections agency’ over 5 weeks ago. Curiously, no correspondence at all from this Second DCA. Nothing in writing.

Second DCA did call once, a few weeks ago. I didn’t recognise the number, didn’t answer and looked it up and saw it was the Second DCA. I blocked the number. I had also blocked the number from the First DCA but they continued to try from different phone lines when they had my account. Second DCA tried once, didn’t leave a message and hasn’t tried again.

Today I got a call from an unfamiliar mobile. Didn’t answer. I called it from a withheld number, got a professional sounding recording (i.e., not your usual mobile recorded greeting), inviting me to leave my name and phone number. Naturally, I did not.

A few hours later, I see a call on my mobile from a number that looks vaguely familiar but am not inclined to answer it. I later realise it looked familiar because it was the original Creditor calling. They didn’t leave a message. The Creditor hasn’t me called since they turned my account over to the First DCA.

Since nothing has really happened, I understand if the post doesn’t merit any feedback. It's more like I’m keeping on top of the chronology of….non (but possibly related?) events…..

[echat11]

Update when you get meaningful information from them.

[MIKE770]

CCA1974 deadline 12 + 2 days , unenforceable until / if ever they find a compliant one

[Alacoque]

Thank you ECHAT11 and MIKE770.

Two letters arrived this week.

One from the Creditor with a ‘settlement offer’. It’s undated but the ‘offer expiration’ is in three days. The language is faux sympathetic, about how sometimes life is hard, etc. They offer three ‘flexible' options: one payment minus a third of the balance, six monthly payments totalling a little more than two thirds of the balance or twelve monthly payments totalling a bit more than three quarters of the amount. They state if I make a payment by the deadline, they will register the debt as ‘partially settled’ with the credit bureaus. The options are all completely unrealistic, given I was unable to even make the minimum monthly payments, hence the default. Their ‘experienced team’ is happy to discuss about any concerns I have. On the reverse of the letter is a list of organisations for ‘free money advice’. The final line says ‘Creditor does not charge any fee for sending applications or statements….’

Second letter is the first communication from the Second DCA, dated at the start of the month though only received this week. It tells me my card has been cancelled due to none (sic) payment and has now been referred to them. Their ‘aim’ it to help me 'achieve’ repayment of the entire balance, which is £1k less than the balance stated on the Creditor’s letter. If I agree to a monthly payment of slightly less than I was already unable to pay, interest charges will ceases. If I can’t afford the minimum payment, I’m asked to complete an I&E form over the phone or online and I’ll be referred to a ’specialised Financial Difficulties team’. If I fail to engage, they’ll register a default with the credit agencies, if this hasn't already been done. The letter then directs me to the website where, among other things, I can work an affordable payment plan, propose a payment plan or request a discounted settlement amount.

Still no sign of Creditor’s response to my CCA request (the First DCA tried to pass off 'documentation' as the signed application, then admitted it wasn't and advised me to ask the Creditor).

I need to make a move/respond but, given I have zero income at the moment, am not exactly in a good place to negotiate from, so any advice gratefully received.

[MIKE770]

no CCA no pay.

the old hat contact us partial settled on credit file is as bad as full default. on other. see what next if anything?