SAR to childs school

[dazdconfuzd]

Hi guys,
I'm after a bit of help and advice if at all possible. I can't find a specific section to post under but I figured the FOI act is universal and it's application will be relevent right across the board.
I have quite a situation going on with my childs school, far too messy and private to go in to details so I wont even try.
I've submitted a SAR asking for personal information concerning myself and/or my children kept on the schools management systems. Recieved the below in reply today.


I highlight the below items on the webpage mentioned above: (When can we refuse to comply with a request | ICO)
- makes unsubstantiated accusations against you or specific employees which are clearly prompted by malice;
- targets a particular employee against whom they have some personal grudge;
I should be grateful if you could clarify the reason for your request in order for this to progress further.


I've shot myself in the foot by being open in my correspondence with the chair before submitting the SAR, my first attempt was to ask them to look for themself if things I suspected were true. It was only after hitting a dead end there that I started looking in to FOI and learned about the ICO and SAR's.
Whilst I am obviously after specific information on their system, my SAR itself was not specific regarding what or who other than myself and my children. I've no obligation to clarify why I've put my request in, so other than stating that alongside some blurb about openness and the presumption of disclosure etc (and no doubt hitting another brick wall) I aren't sure how to handle this impasse.


Anyone got any ideas or experience in anything like this?

[JMcG]

Hi guys,
I'm after a bit of help and advice if at all possible. I can't find a specific section to post under but I figured the FOI act is universal and it's application will be relevent right across the board.
I have quite a situation going on with my childs school, far too messy and private to go in to details so I wont even try.
I've submitted a SAR asking for personal information concerning myself and/or my children kept on the schools management systems. Recieved the below in reply today.


I highlight the below items on the webpage mentioned above: (When can we refuse to comply with a request | ICO)
- makes unsubstantiated accusations against you or specific employees which are clearly prompted by malice;
- targets a particular employee against whom they have some personal grudge;
I should be grateful if you could clarify the reason for your request in order for this to progress further.


I've shot myself in the foot by being open in my correspondence with the chair before submitting the SAR, my first attempt was to ask them to look for themself if things I suspected were true. It was only after hitting a dead end there that I started looking in to FOI and learned about the ICO and SAR's.
Whilst I am obviously after specific information on their system, my SAR itself was not specific regarding what or who other than myself and my children. I've no obligation to clarify why I've put my request in, so other than stating that alongside some blurb about openness and the presumption of disclosure etc (and no doubt hitting another brick wall) I aren't sure how to handle this impasse.


Anyone got any ideas or experience in anything like this?

Did they provide the ICO website link?
https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations...ith-a-request/
In your opinion, is your request 'manifestly unfounded'?
Inho, you could put the boot on the other foot. It is the school who should be answering some questions first.....

"If you believe a request is manifestly unfounded or excessive, you must be able to demonstrate this to the individual. Where an exemption applies, the reasons you give to an individual for not complying with a request may depend upon the particular case. For example, if telling an individual that you have applied a particular exemption would prejudice the purpose of that exemption, your response may be more general. However, where possible, you should be transparent about your reasons for withholding information"

But, from experience, it's wise to take a softly-softly approach at first; no sense in getting pugilistic.

It is also worth knowing about Gillick competency & the Fraser guidelines.
.https://safeguardinghub.co.uk/gillic...and-resources/
We obtained our child's signed consent to investigate.....just in case.
Good luck.

[Scot22]

I have decades of experience in schools. Is it an Academy or Local Authority ?
Obviously, not knowing sufficient detail which you quite rightly say is private only general suggestions can be made.
Consider making a fresh start with a change of schools. Relationships have deteriorated in the current school. It rarely ends well.
If it is Local Authority think about approaching it for help.
If an Academy refer to the Trust.
Your children are the most important priority. Are they old enough for you to ask what they want. They have the daily school experience. Sadly some teachers are not understanding.

[islandgirl]

This thread continues from another - I had suggested the same Scott22 but it is apparently not an option. I also suggested LEA complaints procedure. This is seemingly a very complex case and there is a problem I seem to remember with one specific staff member? Perhaps the OP can give a small amount of background for others

[dazdconfuzd]

I was dreading getting in from work, there not being any replies and another restless night of wondering what I should do, so thanks for the time and replies, it's much appreciated.

Islandgirl I've honestly never posted here or anywhere else about this, it's all recent and my post last night stemmed from the SAR reply I got late yesterday afternoon.

JMCG Yes they did send the ICO link and then highlighted which bits they were using to pause my request. Their default action was how can we not do this. I've been over and over anything I could find relevant and it all just seems so confusing, open to interpretation and ultimately heavily dependant on who deals with your request.
My request is nowhere near excessive or unfounded, I honestly believe the problem is it's too well founded and they know it. Their problem with my request is that I've asked the chair to look in to specifics pre-SAR and the fact I've mentioned a certain person seems to mean they can refuse on that basis.

Scott22 I am just recently at the point where I have to consider a school change, it is a difficult prospect though. I share custody 50/50 with an uncooperative ex that lives 30 miles away. Court ordered arrangements and no major changes re home school or medical etc without mutual agreement. The school is minutes from me and I've no doubt it'd be her ticket to getting them out of the local area.
The school is local authority. Kids are year 1 and 4, very settled and luckily oblivious for the most part.

I have tried at different stages to get the school to address my concerns. I asked the head for details of whoever at the council oversaw the school, they passed to governor. I must've had 5 or 6 pages over a couple of emails since, each time I get what I can only describe as passive agressive threats, policy thrown at me, buzz-words galore, and asked to clarify what is already quite clear and general unhelpfullness. It seems from my recent experience the schools policy on anything staff related is closed-door and brush under carpet, their policy pages either cover them or they've changed them to suit (and mailed me the new ones twice!).

My main grievence is with the head and now the chair (apparently with the agreement of the whole board since their latest mail is from the lot of them). There are definitely other staff involved but unless I get that SAR through I don't stand a chance of knowing who. Something rather important is not so much who but when and the timings of things panning out, it makes the difference between acting appropriately or not. You can be extremely sure they don't want me to know those details and will do whatever they can to stop me getting them.

My last effort before SAR was to ask the chair to do her job without bias or prejudice and her reply was to clarify what I'd asked of her (it was crystal clear already), then question the reason for my SAR and at the same time block me from any verbal communication other than at drop-off/pick-up or by email to the office. Other than parents evening this doesn't actually make any difference in reality, it's just another way for them to assert control and authority.

Very early on I thought of going to the LA. I haven't though as the teacher I shall mention shortly is training, if not already qualified, as an SLE, that works/trains with and one day likely for the LA. I suspect the head, governors and LA are all in it together, I've little doubt they're up to speed with it and offering plenty of advice etc already.

I've no problem being candid about things, to give some background -
I started a relationship with a teacher during the last lockdown. We hit it off over a catchup phonecall during home-learning and it just went from there. We had a great time, our kids ended up like best buddies, lots of days-in and -out all together or just us 2 when we could. It wasn't an ideal start for a relationship though so we didn't rub the schools nose in it. First hiccup was when my ex complained at parents evening that our daughter was getting too close to the teacher. She was given a word to back off in school but nothing else was done, we carried on doing what we did best.
Then last year, 16 months down the line, I had a disagreement with my sons teacher. I asked to look in to attendence, it was at 87% due to the fact my ex didn't work Fridays and seemed to of developed a habit of not doing the hour round trip when she didn't have to be at work which was local to the school. The teacher refused to do anything until it dropped 1% lower and I ended up giving her a piece of my mind. Within days the world came crashing down. I then gave the head a piece too. My lady friends loyalty questioned, her job on the line, and her unofficially yet catagorically banned from seeing me or the kids outside of work. We actually carried on seeing each other for a month or so but before long I said I can't handle such a backwards step and no kids = no me. The months ticked on by with the occasional bumping in to each other, a couple of times turning up at my house but I made it clear we were sunk and it was pointless. I stuck to no kids no me and I meant it. Then my son started getting upset when I dropped him off to class. I'll save a paragraph explaining but it turned out she had been rather pro-active in the time she spent around him. Having been previously warned off my daughter but not my son, and also her position as lead of EYFS, she was completely at liberty to do so. I arranged to see the head. The first half of our meeting we were both blatantly testing the water, obviously extremely curious of each others position and unsure how to broach this awkward meeting. After much discussion we agreed to keep an eye on things over the coming weeks. Over the next couple of days I couldn't stop thinking that the head had used the opportunity to cover her arse, make out she'd acted completely honourably and following protocol throughout. That's when I asked her who oversaw the school and the chair became involved.

That's about as brief as I can put it from my position. A total mess, worst rock and hard place I've ever experienced, I know I'd be best off dropping it and probably seeking to move schools yet at the same time I want the truth out.
On a personal note, I fully acknowledge I'm an idiot and can only really blame myself at the end of the day but this other person was the best thing to happen to me and the kids in a very long time and I can't help but want to stick it to those that took her from me and used our private life as a weapon

[islandgirl]

Many apologies but there was a thread a while ago which seemed very similar part of which read:

"I am looking for some advice regarding a defamation claim I am bringing against a school teacher. I am bringing the case against the teacher personally not the school but it is due to things which were said and / or written down by her whilst at work.I do not have the teachers personal contact details. I was able to figure out her personal work email based off other teachers personal work email addresses and I know I have the correct one as I contacted the teacher via email asking for a non work correspondence address to serve a letter before action....The school have issued a ban relating to me and their premises based off defamatory comments by the teacher, again the police were involved but closed the case with no action purely based on the teachers statement, but did call me telling me not to approach the teacher. Again given they said no laws were broken I do not think they had any right to say such a thing."

As a school governor my advice is always follow the complaint procedure which should be on the website - if you are not happy escalate to the LEA. Having read the story I do not know what info you need from the request and why you need it? If you have a complaint about the conduct of a teacher then follow the policy to its conclusion and see what happens. I hope you sort things and that you get a good night's sleep.

[Scot22]

I agree with Islandgirl.
Since your children are very settled I wouldn't dream of putting them through the upheaval of starting a new school.
Every situation involving school should be governed by what is best for the children. Parent teacher partnership is a core of providing a good education.
I totally sympathise with your feeling about buzzwords etc. I do understand the head wanting to look after staff. Unless you have a specific complaint about something wrong which affects children then it is normal to want to protect staff.
You have been hurt. Nothing will change that it happened. My feeling is that you should think about what you have to gain from this turmoil. Is it better for you and your children to let it go and just move on ?
Like Islandgirl I hope you can sort things, best wishes.