Am I Liable

[andyb53]

Hello all. I am in a very strange situation that I would like to ask the opinion of the lovely people on this Forum. Sorry if this is a little long

You need to know a little about me first. I am 68 years old and retired 3 years ago after a long career in the Broadcasting industry. I am registered disabled a Blue Badge holder. I have serious mobility issues and find walking difficult. To supplement my meagre pension income and to keep my brain active, I buy faulty electrical and electronic items on eBay repair and restore them and then re-sell them on eBay. I have a 100% positive feedback history for over 2500 buying and selling transactions.

About 5 years ago I was approached by a person offering his services to me for PAT safety testing the items I sell. He offered a full collection and delivery from my home and as I am disabled, I thought this a good thing. I had his contact telephone number and he wrote to me from his company laying out the terms of his service. Overall he was very professional and I had no reason to suspect he was anything other than genuine. For the past 6 years he has tested the items I sell at a cost of £7 per item and I have been very happy with his service until now!!

About a year ago I sold a Toaster on eBay.. The buyer complained about it and demanded a refund. I told him I would refund him if it was found to be faulty. He refused to return the machine. I asked eBay to step in and they too asked him to return it. Again he refused!. All of a sudden I receive letters from Trading Standards accusing me of a variety of trading offences. Only later did I discover that the buyer was an ex-Trading Standards officer from the same TS that had contacted me. It transpires that the PAT Certificate that was issued with this toaster had false logos and claims the Tester was a member of NICIEC when apparently he was not. I have now been charged with fraud although I knew nothing whatsoever about this and had no suspicions whatsoever about the validity of the person / company doing the testing. I have since been told that this company does not exist and the claims and logos on the certificates should not have been there as he was not registered with these companies. I had been purchasing in good faith were indeed false I stress I did NOT knowingly supply fake certificates. Because of my disability I never went to the persons premises as it was 45 miles away The full collection service he was offering seemed ideal for me in my position and I had no reason whatsoever to think suspect or believe these Certificates were false...

How do I stand on this matter as I would never have knowingly passed on fake documentation. As for the Toaster. Despite request from me, no-one has inspected this machine and it seems everything has been taken on the word of the ex-Trading Standards buyer. Already TS have put in a claim for £2500 in costs for a Toast I sold for £85
Advice is much appreciated

[islandgirl]

If you have been charged you will have had an interview. Did you have a solicitor with you? Did you explain the above? What legal advice have you had in the criminal matter? How can TS claim £2.5k (unless it caused a fire perhaps)? I am sure people here will try to help you but we need to understand more...

[andyb53]

If you have been charged you will have had an interview. Did you have a solicitor with you? Did you explain the above? What legal advice have you had in the criminal matter? How can TS claim £2.5k (unless it caused a fire perhaps)? I am sure people here will try to help you but we need to understand more...

Hi there Yes Trading Standards have summoned me with a number of offences relating to the PAT safety Certificate Apparently the logos and membership claims on the certificate were false. I stress I had no knowledge of this whatsoever and I paid the Tester for each one. I have not been interviewed at all. I have engaged a Solicitor but am yet to meet as he has still been shielding. I understand the case is going to be allocated to someone else because of this. Regarding the Trading Standards Cost application. They have submitted an itemised bill for all the work they have done whilst carrying out this investigation. This is for over £2000 despite the toaster being sold for £84. As for the Toaster. Despite requests from both myself and eBay the buyer refuses to either have it sent back for examination and refund or have it inspected himself. I now discover that no-one has seen this machine and the damage he alleges but has taken photographs These could be any toaster . What really "stinks" is that the buyer is an ex-Trading Standards Investigator from the very dept that has issued this summons. They appear to have taken everything he says as gospel and gone ahead with this case

My basic question is Bearing in mind I a) Had no obligation to get these items tested at all. I did it to show and prove their electrical safety and b) I purchased these safety checks and certificates in total good faith and believed the person doing it was genuine. c) because I am disabled with severe mobility issues I was in no position to drive 70 miles or so to go to his premises d) I had (have) written confirmation and a telephone contact for him (now disconnected). I believed I had taken reasonable steps to check him out bearing in mine my disability. Am I able to suggest to a Court that I too had been taken in by this crook and any suggested fraud was unintentional as I believed I had acted in good faith Advice and comments are welcome.

[echat11]

a) I would make a Complaint to Action Fraud against the PAT Safety guy, you can do that online. They will give you a reference number.

b) I would make a Complaint against Trading Standards, follow their complaints procedure, your complaint is that the ex-Trading Standards officer has used 'undue influence' in this matter. Would they have gone to the lengths they have in this matter if he had not been an ex-Trading Standards officer? Follow the complaints procedure, if it isn't resolved to your satisfaction, lodge a complaint with the LGO - https://www.lgo.org.uk/make-a-compla...ding-standards

c) Do any of your household insurance policies has legal expenses cover? there is a but with they cover commercial activities, albeit as a hobby.

[andyb53]

a) I would make a Complaint to Action Fraud against the PAT Safety guy, you can do that online. They will give you a reference number.

b) I would make a Complaint against Trading Standards, follow their complaints procedure, your complaint is that the ex-Trading Standards officer has used 'undue influence' in this matter. Would they have gone to the lengths they have in this matter if he had not been an ex-Trading Standards officer? Follow the complaints procedure, if it isn't resolved to your satisfaction, lodge a complaint with the LGO - https://www.lgo.org.uk/make-a-compla...ding-standards

c) Do any of your household insurance policies has legal expenses cover? there is a but with they cover commercial activities, albeit as a hobby.

Thank you for this. Sadly the person who did the PAT testing seems to have disappeared His mobile no longer connects and I am told by Trading Standards that the address on the quotation letter (that I still have) no longer exists or a fake from the start I only used this guy because he offered a door to door service ant a good price. It truly did not enter into my head that he was a fraud. To this day I do not think his testing was fraudulent because I have never had a toaster back from a customer and he actually has failed some in the past. This indicates to me that he did indeed test them. Initially Trading Standards accused me of making them but dropped that idea when I explained how it all happened. The seem more interested in finding me guilty of fraud because there were logos and a claim this person was in a Trades organisation. Yes these were on the Certificates I sent with the machines but i had no idea at all that they were fake Please remember there was no legal obligation for me to have the stuff PAT tested in the first place!

Surely the whole case revolves around did i KNOWINGLY supply these Certificates? As I did not how can I be guilty of anything?? Because of my age, disability etc I qualified for Legal Aid and they have given this case to a Barrister to handle. It seems a huge sledgehammer to crack a nut. As mentioned I have 100% positive feedback with eBay for over 2500 transactions they cant all be wrong can they?

[islandgirl]

Just so I understand trading standards have summoned you where?

[andyb53]

Just so I understand trading standards have summoned you where?

I received a summons from Haverford west Magistrates Court. I explained that the journey to get there was a 600mile round trip and that I am registered disabled. I also sent them a letter from my GP saying that medically, I could not do that journey. The case was remanded last September for a new hearing in my local Magistrates court and that is in 3 week time.

The solicitor that was given my case was unfortunately still "shielding" so we have not met at all. I complained to the firm about this and they have now organised a Barrister to represent me in Court This seem such a waste of everyone's time and money. The buyer of my toaster was an ex TS Inspector from the office that is dealing with this matter and I believe he is just trying to cause trouble. Why else would he refuse to return the item as requested by both myself and eBay? eBay are notorious for mainly taking the side of the buyer but in my case the found in my favour. I had no idea whatsoever that the person who I was paying to do these tests was using unauthorised Logos etc on his certificates. TS claim that I should have done more homework on this guy but why would I do that?? I had his name address and contact details (albeit now discovered as false), and he was testing toaster for me over several years without any issue. Sure if I did not have mobility issues I may have been able to discover he was a fraud but why should I suspect someone who has been providing this service to me for many years until now?

[echat11]

How were you paying him? Sure if they suspect fraud, they should be looking for him? What if he issues fraudulent Gas Safe Certificates? This tester guy would have left some trace. The tester guy must be up to other criminal activity.

Do you remember how he found you?

'About 5 years ago I was approached by a person offering his services' did you advertise the need for one?

[islandgirl]

Ok then I think you should insist on a meeting with yoru solicitor yesterday and see what grounds he is going to use. Have you pleaded not guilty - I would assume so?

[andyb53]

How were you paying him? Sure if they suspect fraud, they should be looking for him? What if he issues fraudulent Gas Safe Certificates? This tester guy would have left some trace. The tester guy must be up to other criminal activity.

Do you remember how he found you?

'About 5 years ago I was approached by a person offering his services' did you advertise the need for one?

Hi there. He approached me after he saw my ad on Ebay. As I said, he demonstrated the testing procedure in my home and I have been using him for years. I had a active telephone number (which is now disconnected) I asked Trading Standard to involve the police as they could have traced the telephone number but they refused. They seem to have automatically accepted everything he says and claims

[andyb53]

Ok then I think you should insist on a meeting with yoru solicitor yesterday and see what grounds he is going to use. Have you pleaded not guilty - I would assume so?

Yes it has been very frustrating. Because I am a Pensioner and on low income I was granted full legal aid and allocated a Solicitor and had no contact whatsoever for 2 months. Then I discover he is quite elderly and was, and still is "Shielding". I have complained to the practice and now I am told I have been allocated a Barrister to represent me. Still no meeting or contact has been arranged and I am getting apprehensive about this whole affair

[echat11]

Yes it has been very frustrating. Because I am a Pensioner and on low income I was granted full legal aid and allocated a Solicitor and had no contact whatsoever for 2 months. Then I discover he is quite elderly and was, and still is "Shielding". I have complained to the practice and now I am told I have been allocated a Barrister to represent me. Still no meeting or contact has been arranged and I am getting apprehensive about this whole affair

I think you need to chase the firm, the Barrister needs to make contact like yesterday. Tell them if they don''t get moving you'll lodge a complaint with the SRA.

How did you pay him?

[andyb53]

as it was only £7 a time I just paid him in cash and though no more of it I dont even have a cheque book anymore so very few options were open to me I understand the Barrister was at last instructed last Friday so I am giving him a week to familiarise himself with the case. I feel very let down by the Solicitor appointed by the Legal Aid firm. I assume they have been paying him some kind of "retainer since last Sept and he quite literally has done nothing. I think it is only because I sent 2 recorded delivery letters to them telling them I will contact the Law Society was any action taken. I know this seem a very petty alleged offence but I have never been to a Court in my life and given the circumstances that this retired buyer is from the very Trading Standards office that has brought this action against me. I do feel this whole thing is a sledgehammer to crack a nut. All they had to do was advise me of what they had discovered about the PAT testing and I would have stopped using him right away This has upset me so much I have stopped completely selling on eBay

[ULA]

Threads merged for ease of providing advice.

[islandgirl]

As posted on the other thread I have never seen costs that high even when a full trial is run - what does your solicitor say about this? Seems entirely wrong and like nothing I have ever seen.