Is "on your property" the same as "in the footprint of your property"?

[Soffit]

Long and high sided vehicles keep damaging my house by hitting my guttering. My local County Council say that they have no responsibility for this as it is a moving traffic offence so they will not widen the footway and put bollards in or let me put up a triangular road warning sign. They advise attaching a chevron sign to my property to warn drivers. This is their only conession. Any chevrons would have to be put up on my property. I won't go into a long description of my property but suffice it to say that drivers will not see the chevrons unless they protrude from my property.

Does the extended width of my property provided by the eaves (Call it the footprint) allow me to fulfill the "on your property" requirement? If so I could attach a chevron sign at right angles to the wall to warn drivers? If a vehicle hit my the chevron sign, would I be at risk of being sued for any damage to the vehicle? Damage to the guttering costs about £300 to £400 a go and repeated insurance claims will push up my premium.

Any thoughts or advice would be received, gratefully.

[echat11]

Hi SOFFIT

des8 Can you kindly take a look and advise, many thanks.

[Soffit]

Hello and thanks for your reply. I'm a bit rusty on using the forum and PMs. How do I get to your message, please?

[paulajayne]

Hello and thanks for your reply. I'm a bit rusty on using the forum and PMs. How do I get to your message, please?

Echat has asked DES to take a look at your problem.

He will reply here.

[echat11]

Echat has asked DES to take a look at your problem.

He will reply here.

Thanks Paula

[des8]

Echat has asked DES to take a look at your problem.

He will reply here.

You hope

Trouble with placing a sign at right angles on your property is that, depending on its height and distance it projects from your property, you could be obstructing the highway. I am assuming your building fronts the footway, and except for large vehicles no one is inconvenienced by your overhanging gutters. perhaps your house was there before the footway!
If the chevrons are high enough I doubt there will be a problem, especially if you can have them mounted on sprung hinges to prevent damage to vehicles that might strike the chevrons.
Clear it first with your planning dept!

The only other solution I can think of is CCTV, angled to pick up vehicle identity as it strikes your house. (This will involve compliance with the Data Protection Act and GDPR.) If you can do that you will then be able to claim against the drivers responsible.

[Soffit]

You hope

Trouble with placing a sign at right angles on your property is that, depending on its height and distance it projects from your property, you could be obstructing the highway. I am assuming your building fronts the footway, and except for large vehicles no one is inconvenienced by your overhanging gutters. perhaps your house was there before the footway!
If the chevrons are high enough I doubt there will be a problem, especially if you can have them mounted on sprung hinges to prevent damage to vehicles that might strike the chevrons.
Clear it first with your planning dept!

The only other solution I can think of is CCTV, angled to pick up vehicle identity as it strikes your house. (This will involve compliance with the Data Protection Act and GDPR.) If you can do that you will then be able to claim against the drivers responsible.

Hello and thanks for your reply. Just to answer and hopefully clarify....

On the height question then I can locate my chevron sign high enough to ensure that no one on the footway bumps their head. Any vehicle which hit the sign would also have hit my guttering. From my limited knowledge of these things, I understand that "highway" includes both the "footway" and the "carriageway"? On this basis, my chevron sign would only be sticking out from my house wall to a distance (say 20cm?) to match the distance that my guttering also sticks out over the footway. Neither would protrude over the carraigeway. My local county council has used the phrase "on my property" for the legal location of the chevron signs. I have taken this to mean "including the eaves/guttering overhang". Am I correct?

They have sent me pictures of chevron signs attached flat on the face of the wall but the circumstances of this location on my house would make this design pointless.

Sprung hinges are a great idea! My District Council has cleared (subject to sight of the proposed sign(s)) the mounting of them on my house (which is also a Listed Building, just to add to the fun!).

Yes, my house was here some hundreds of years before the footway! Yes, my house fronts the footway. The problem only started when the County Council built a new bridge in 1990 which then allowed larger and longer vehicles to use the road, which also passes my house. So I was particularly miffed when they refused to widen the footway (which they installed originally) outside my house and to put bollards on it as I requested. I got as far as the Ombudsman to challenge this decision but lost the case. I then had the cheek to challenge the safety of the Ombudsman's decision saying that not all the evidence had been considered but I was turned down on that as well. Because I am a stickler, I have also made Foi requests to the Ombudsman (Who has replied) and my county council (who have acknowledged but not delivered.)

I have started to look at CCTV and have just encountered the Data Protection Act and GDPR issues. My simple understanding at this stage is that I must have notices up to let people know that CCTV is being used. The system would also hold data such as registration plates and videos of pedestrians. CCTV equipment could be installed on my property. It would be a bit vulnerable to theft or vandalism but at £300 to £400 each time to repair my guttering the investment in CCTV may be the cheaper option.

Any further comments would be appreciated.

[des8]

Although you can fix signs to your building (bearing in mind any restrictions due to its grading and current regulations ), you may not obstruct the highway (which includes the footpath).
Obstructions of course includes projections above head height!

[Soffit]

Thanks for your reply.

Earlier in the thread you suggested using hinges. I guess so that my sign would swing if hit? You are now saying that any protruding sign would be a highway obstruction? Can you please, just clarify this as they appear to be contradicting each other?

Just another point that I'd like help with is that if I did put a projecting sign up, it would project no further than my eaves/guttering. The sign would be tucked under the eaves. The eaves/guttering project over the highway but it wouldn't be reasonable to say that they are a highway obstruction, surely?

[des8]

Not having a picture or detailed plans of your situation it is difficult to make anything other than generalised suggestions but I think there are two ways you can consider your situation:
1) your property probably extends to the middle of the road, but as the surface of that section between your house and the middle of the road belongs to the highway authority there is nothing you can do upon it
2) your property doesn't extend as in 1), but you have in effect a flying freehold where your eaves project.

In either case the public footpath is part of the highway and you may not obstruct it.

However you have the problem with your eaves being damaged by passing traffic.
To alert vehicles to the problem it was suggested placing chevrons on the building, but mounted on sprung hinges to lessen any possible damage if they should be struck by a passing vehicle
These chevrons will protrude over the footpath so, to an extent they will cause an obstruction, but that will depend on the height of the mount, and if they only protrude a little the local authority might not object.

Basically you have a problem and to lessen it you have to put forward a solution which causes minimal disruption or inconvenience but will obtain the approval of the LA.

[Soffit]

Sorry to take so long to respond and thank you for your reply. Here are some pictures to illustrate the location and issue. I hope that this helps. road layout.jpgThe problem.jpg

[des8]

So see what the LA say about chevrons that fixed to your end wall.
Positioned next to the down pipe so it protrudes a little way over the footpath at say 8' high, mounted on sprung hinges, would in my opinion be a reasonable solution.
Discuss it with the planners and see if you can come to an agreement over a solution to the problem

[echat11]

I'm not sure who painted those 'road lines', but that is 'ridiculous'. I'm not sure what speeds those lorries drive by, but there needs to be speed limits even road bumps to control the speed of 'traffic'. Potentially it's 'very hazardous'.

[Soffit]

Thank you for the replies.

I've just had the OK from my highway authority for chevron signs that protrude over the footway so I'm going to go ahead and price up some signs and sprung hinges. I shall try and restrict how far they stick out to the same as the eaves/guttering. Thanks for the suggestion.

I think that maybe my picture of the street was unclear. The 'line' near my house is a run of drop-curbs put in by the highway authority some years ago when they repaired the footway. There is a center-marking on the carriageway which is on a bend and approximately 5.5m (18') wide at that point. Being on a curve the swept path of a 40tonne artic is quite a lot! Artics/HGVs attempt to pass at that point.

I'm going to price-up CCTV as well.

[islandgirl]

resurrected post from 2021