Chloechadwel

[Chloechadwel]

Hello, would anyone be kind enough to give information with regards to the following,
Re the vexatious request ruling, my local council have used this fabricated accusation to deny myself and all members of my family information related to our family cremated remains grave.

ARE THEIR ACTIONS LEGAL?

[echat11]

Hi CHLOE

Could provide more details so the guys here can advise.

[Chloechadwel]

To echat 11.
Wow, thank you for speedy response.

Below is more information.

My local council , due to lack of space, deliberately, and completely,excavated the last resting place of my late uncle, without permission, the remains of my late brother were then interred into the vacant plot.
The excavated earth containing my late uncle’s remains was then used as ‘backfill’ for the purpose of covering my late brother’s casket.

My local council have desperately attempted to cover up this illegal act, and because i won’t ‘go away’, they have used every means available to avoid giving me information related to the family cremated remains grave, resulting in the vexatious request accusation.
My actual foi request that instigated the accusation was to be given the name of the cemetery manager at the time of the exhumation.

I am the present owner/ leaseholder and the grave remains in my possession for at least 50 years.

I can assure all the above is absolutely true.

I will check in again tomorrow as the above is quite a lot of information to digest.
Thank you.
Enjoy your evening.

Chloechadwel.

[Chloechadwel]

Morning, a little bit more information.

The cremated remains grave was originally purchased by my late mother.
My mother purchased the grave on the understanding that the grave would accommodate 4 individual interments.
Unfortunately, due to a serious error at the time of the construction of this entire purpose built area, there is not enough space in any of the cremated remains graves for a fourth and final individual interment.
Below is the placing of individual interments as it SHOULD have been
Memorial Headstone. Example of my family cremated
Interment 1. remains grave.
Interment 2.
Interment 3.
Interment 4.
Interment 4
Interment 3.
Interment 2.
Interment 1. Opposing cremated remains grave
Memorial Headstone.



Each row of cremated remains graves are set out in the same manner.

A row of ‘graves’ specifically constructed for the purpose of containing space for the purpose of 4 individual interments.

The council are refusing to meet me at the family grave for the purpose of addressing my serious concerns.
They are also refusing to supply standard information relating to sizes of graves etc.
Hence the use of the vexatious request accusation.

Enjoy your Sunday
Stay safe.
Chloechadwel.

[echat11]

The council won't give you the name of the cemetery manager, the council has attempted to 'cover up' what you believe has happened (infilled your brother's grave with the remains of your uncle, which the council is hiding), instead of investigating the matter, they claim you are are making a 'vexatious request'.

On page 28 of the second link, you have the Complaints protocol.

You've complained to the council (I wouldn't get bogged down with the name of the cemetery manager), the council is ultimately responsible. If you haven't got a final response from the council (senior local government officer), you need one so you can lodge a complaint with the Local Government Ombudsman. You could also consider complaints to local Councillors and your MP.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/...al%20authority.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...d-managers.pdf

https://www.lgo.org.uk/make-a-complaint



You can complain to the ICO in that the council hasn't been forthcoming with information requests.

https://ico.org.uk/

Do everything in writing.

[MIKE770]

The council won't give you the name of the cemetery manager, the council has attempted to 'cover up' what you believe has happened (infilled your brother's grave with the remains of your uncle, which the council is hiding), instead of investigating the matter, they claim you are are making a 'vexatious request'.

On page 28 of the second link, you have the Complaints protocol.

You've complained to the council (I wouldn't get bogged down with the name of the cemetery manager), the council is ultimately responsible. If you haven't got a final response from the council (senior local government officer), you need one so you can lodge a complaint with the Local Government Ombudsman. You could also consider complaints to local Councillors and your MP.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/...al%20authority.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...d-managers.pdf

https://www.lgo.org.uk/make-a-complaint



You can complain to the ICO in that the council hasn't been forthcoming with information requests.

https://ico.org.uk/

Do everything in writing.

& keep copies on file, if letter get proof of posting (Free) and attach to copy!

[Chloechadwel]

Hello, thanks for taking the time to supply information.
Much appreciated.
More information about situation, (Its a nightmare!!!).
Been through LGO procedure, absolutely a total sham, not fit for purpose, only made matters for me a hundred times worse!
The council staff must have been laughing up their sleeves at LGO finding no fault with the fact that they, the council, refused to address the ‘missing’ fourth plot for around two years.
Only after continually contacting the council requesting this information, the cemetery manager finally admitted there was no space for a fourth and final individual interment at the family cremated remains grave.
I would imagine this would apply to all the surrounding cremated remains graves.
I strongly suspect this deliberate recycling has happened to other cremated remains graves, but the families were not aware.
I however am very familiar with the family cremated remains grave and saw straight away on approaching the grave that my late uncle’s final resting place in plot 2 had been completely excavated.
There are other administrative failings by the council that the LGO found no fault with.
As you will probably be aware the LGO do not investigate the actual criminal activity itself, only the way the council deal with the administration side of the situation.
May I ask if anyone could kindly help with the following query,
I informed the council that a criminal act had been deliberately carried out by two cemetery operatives at the time of my late brother’s interment.
Are the council obliged to inform the police of this ‘crime’?
If I could at least get an answer to this question alone, it would be a massive help.
The council say it is up to me to contact the police.
Obviously the council wanted to make the situation more stressful for myself in the hope I would ‘go away’.
I did contact a solicitor who sent a letter to the council on my behalf, he also promised to help me with future legal representations.
Unfortunately he ‘bailed’ out on me after I’d paid him for the
letter to the council.
Not because he didn’t believe me, but because he realised how powerful the council was, not powerful in a good way, but powerful in a corrupt way.
To be honest, I have really had an eye opening experience with regards to how far the council are prepared to go to cover up the sickening and deliberate desecration of my late uncle’s last resting place.
Just an observation regarding the LGO.
I would definitely advise anyone thinking of approaching them with a complaint against their local council, to seriously think twice.
From my experience, the LGO did not take a fair and balanced view regarding the situation.
My comment is definitely not a case of ‘sour grapes’.
That’s it for today, will check in tomorrow and hopefully someone will have been kind enough to answer my query with regards to councils informing police, re criminal activity carried out by council staff in the course of their duties.
Thanks again for the responses, much appreciated,
chloechadwel.

[echat11]

By the actions of the council, or lack of i.e. not providing information that's been requested (easy for them to provide), not prepared to meet and discuss (easy for them to meet you), clearly they want to stop your enquiries / complaints. The 'vexatious request' is a way of them stopping you. There are still ways you can complain. Contact the Government Minister / Department responsible for council cemeteries. Give them as much details as possible with timeline, draw the plots out so they know exactly what you are saying.

https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...ints-procedure

https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...cal-government

Here is some more info:

https://democracy.brent.gov.uk/docum...eries-app1.pdf

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...60/SN04060.pdf

The council should call the police if 'criminal activity has been carried out by staff' and there is enough evidence of this, there are examples of council's doing this - 'my query with regards to councils informing police, re criminal activity carried out by council staff in the course of their duties.'.

[Chloechadwel]

Good morning ECHAT11, thank you for your response. All the content has been noted and I am present, due to your information considering my further options.

Thank you for confirming that the council should notify police of criminal activity.
They have definitely made every attempt to ignore my information, obviously as they themselves are also guilty parties they do not wish to be ‘investigated.’

I will try and keep today’s communication short.

Are you able to give me any information regarding the council’s failure to inform the police of the criminal act of unlawful exhumation.
For example, by not informing the police are the council guilty of ‘perverting the course of justice’ or similar.

The council have completely refused to facilitate a meeting between my daughter, myself and the two cemetery operatives who actually were responsible for the desecration.

The council’s reason for their refusal is that, they, the council, have a duty of care to their employees and that they also don’t see the point in any meeting with the two members of staff involved!

I have absolutely no doubt the council are fully aware of the unauthorised recycling of cremated remains grave due to lack of space.

I know with absolute certainty that my late uncle’s final resting place was completely excavated, because I saw it for myself. So did my daughter and other witnesses.
I will swear under oath to the extremely distressing scene I witnessed prior to my late brother’s interment.

The council have completely ignored all the evidence I have provided, refused to meet at the grave, and have not made any attempts to take any statements from the witnesses,
and that’s only the tip of the iceberg!

Again, all the above is a lot to consider, so I will check in again tomorrow.

I really appreciate the help and patience shown regarding this nightmare situation, thank you.

( To confirm I have all communications with the council in email format, thank goodness!!!).

Stay safe,
chloechadwel.

[echat11]

'Are you able to give me any information regarding the council’s failure to inform the police of the criminal act of unlawful exhumation.
For example, by not informing the police are the council guilty of ‘perverting the course of justice’ or similar.'

On the above, it sounds like they are in self denial / self protection mode, so they won't be doing anything that could shine a light on their conduct and the issues.

As stated previously you have a lot of information to work with, you know where your uncle's burial plot was, you know where your brother's burial plot is now.

This document contains a lot of relevant information - https://democracy.brent.gov.uk/docum...eries-app1.pdf

Complain as stated in post 8.

[Chloechadwel]

Morning ECHAT 11
You have hit the nail on the head when you refer to ‘self protection mode’.
Of course their written communications give the appearance that they are in ‘self denial’, but their actions and blatant lies show otherwise!
Hence their ultimate attempt to avoid having to address any queries/questions related to my family cremated remains grave, which was the fabricated accusation of sending vexatious requests!

Not once have the council asked any of the witnesses to provide statements with reference to the day in question.
They have completely ignored my many polite requests to meet a member of staff at the family grave, for the purpose of bringing this nightmare situation to a conclusion .

I’m sorry I can’t supply more information about the lack of police involvement, just that every time I state to the council that I don’t believe the situation should be treated by the complaints staff but by the council solicitors/ legal department, I am told that if I ‘believe’ a crime has been committed I should inform the police.

My query today is, the local council have stated they have carried out lengthy investigations into my ‘claim’ of unlawful exhumation and have found that no exhumation had taken place, BUT, they,
the council, have constantly completely ignored my polite requests to be given copies of the alleged ‘lengthy’ investigations .
Their usual response to any of my questions related to these lengthy investigations is,
“The case is closed and there will be no further response on this matter”.
All this happened without any input from myself or my family!!!

The saying ‘A kangaroo court’ definitely springs to mind!

I have requested ADR and all the other means of settling this situation but my requests/ suggestions are completely ignored by the council.
I do not even receive the professionalism courtesy of a response, unless it is the standard “The case is closed”, etc.

I will leave it there for today.
Again, thanks for your patience and input, which I genuinely appreciate.
Enjoy your day,
chloechadwel.

[Chloechadwel]

I can confirm that any request for information related to ........(grave number) whe

[Chloechadwel]

‘Oops’ to my post above.
——————

Below is extract from letter, sent to me by the council’s executive director, with reference to any further requests made by myself and all my family members, in relation to the family cremated remains grave .

LETTER EXTRACT FROM COUNCIL.
“ I can confirm that any request for information related to ........ (grave number), whether by yourself, or your family, will be considered to be vexatious and will be refused”.
————-

Anyone able to advise if this action is legal.
The council are refusing to confirm or deny the legality of this total and indefinite ban.
Thanks,
chloechadwel.

[echat11]

The following is relevant, take the Council's final response and consider lodging a Complaint with the ICO, but speak to them first for guidance.

The Council can't just say it's 'vexatious' when they should have the information to hand and it's something they are obligated to do.

'LACO 1977 places a number of obligations upon burial authorities. (page 2 / 3 - link above)

Maintain a record of burials
Maintain a plan showing the number and location of each grave
Maintain a record of the granting and transfer of exclusive rights
Issue Deeds of exclusive rights
Maintain a record of exhumations
Store all records securely to preserve them from loss or damage'

[Chloechadwel]

Hello ECHAT11,
Thank you for confirming my doubts regarding the actions of the council’s ban.
I’ve already been through the ICO complaint system with regards to SCC’s fabricated vexatious request accusation.
Unbelievably the ICO completely ignored the true facts, evidence and photographic proof I supplied in quantity.
They also ignored my many attempts to address this serious and distressing situation before contacting the them, as they, the ICO, state the involved parties are obligated to do.
The ICO also refused to address the fact that the council did the exact opposite of this ruling, by completely refusing to cooperate and avoiding any involvement with regards to the exhumation.

All very contradictory to their website information etc.

At this point I would like to confirm all my communications to both the council and the ICO have always been polite.

As the ICO have blatantly broke their own rules and guidelines etc, I am now in dispute with them also.

( I wonder if these organisations receive bonuses for every complaint they can deflect from town councils).

I am aware that I can apply to a first tier complaint system against the ICO ruling, but I feel very strongly that I will have to pay around £100 pounds for the extremely probable outcome that ‘no fault’ will be found !!!
I’m afraid my horrendous experience with a supposedly ‘unbiased and fair, system has made me lose all faith in truth and justice.

I have asked the council for a clear and concise reason why my genuine questions/queries solely related to the unauthorised exhumation of my late uncle’s remains can be referred to by council staff as vexatious.
My communication was completely ignored.

With reference to the list of 6 burial obligations you kindly supplied in your previous post, I am waiting for one hundred percent confirmation from the council cemetery manager, that the list of ‘obligations’ also apply to cremated remains.
I genuinely don’t think I will receive any response.

Many thanks again for your input. Greatly appreciated.
Goodnight,
chloechadwel.