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Wedding Venue Refuses to give Refund Re. Covid-19 and Adhere to CMA Guidelines
Hello My Friends at Legal Beagles,
I have not required the kind assistance of any Legal Beagles for some years but am in a situation now where I could do with some good legal advice regarding my wedding venue hire amidst Covid-19 and cancellation / refunds. Our venue is refusing to provide a refund and asking us t move the date a 3rd time which we do not want to do.
Background:
My fiancée and I, booked a wedding venue to host our wedding and Reception at Sattavis Patidar Centre (ADVAIT (MANAGEMENT) LTD (Company Number: 05392017) – based in North West London, Wembley. I am actually part of a community whom donated to build this venue to service the wider community as a place to host functions.
We were to have 600 Guests in the Morning (Indian Wedding) and 400 Guests in the Evening (Reception).
Course of Events:
1. 01/10/19 Onwards - We were in discussions with the venue since October 2019 about making a booking to host our wedding there in October 2020.
2. 09/12/19 - We booked the venue for 03/10/20 (some 10 months in advance) to host our wedding and paid a deposit of £730 of £7,300 (total hire charge).
3. 13/01/20 - We paid a further £3,650 towards our wedding hire. Total paid as of 13/01/20 was £730 + £3,650 = £4,380 of £7,300 (total hire charge).
4. 27/03/20 - Covid-19 restrictions started to be put in place for hosting weddings and me and my fiancée started to become worried if we can still host our wedding as desired on 03/10/20.
5. 07/04/20 - We raised our concerns amidst Covid-19 with the venue and requested to cancel the booking and a refund respectively of £4,380 paid to date.
6. 07/04/20 - The venue refused to provide a refund and offered only to move the initial booked date (03/10/20) up to any available date up to May 2021.
7. 11/05/20 - We reluctantly moved our initial booking of 03/10/20 to 30/05/21 as now our money was tied up with the venue and we had no other option and we assumed by our new proposed date of 30/05/21 that Covid-19 wedding restrictions would be resolved / lifted.
8. 11/05/20 - We received a new booking form / invoice from the venue.
9. 11/05/20 - The hire cost increased from £7,300 to £10,750 as the new proposed date 30/05/21 was “Peak Season”. We therefore as of 11/05/20 had paid £4,380 of £10,750 for our proposed new hire date of 30/05/21.
Recent Correspondence between Myself and the Venue:
10. 28/02/21 - We raised our concerns amidst Covid-19 for the second time with the venue and requested to cancel the booking and a refund respectively of £4,380 paid to date.
I emailed the venue:
“I trust you are well and keeping safe during this pandemic.
I believe you have been in discussions with my partner regarding our Hire initially moved from 2nd October 2020 to 30th May 2021 as per considerations regarding this Pandemic / Covid.
With respect, what are the next steps from you / AML as I believe you are not in a position to host our wedding for 600 Guests in the Morning and 400 Guest in the Evening on 30th May 2021 given current Government Guidelines.
I look forward to hearing from you timely.”
11. 01/03/21 - The venue refused to provide a refund and offered only to move the now 2nd moved date (30/05/21) up to any available date up to May 2022 which would make it apparent we would have moved our proposed hire date a 3rd time if we did.
Venue emailed:
“In accordance with the terms and conditions, no refund shall be given. We are willing to postpone to another date, save for that the date agreed must be before the end of May 2022.”
12. 02/03/21 – Venue emailed a section of their Terms and Conditions:
“1. Clause 30.1 states as follows:
AML will not be liable for any loss due to any breakdown of machinery, failure of supply of electricity or other supplies, leakage of water, fire, government restriction, civil commotion, insurrection, labour disputes of whatever nature or act of God or any other reason beyond the control of either party which may cause the Sattavis Patidar Centre to be temporarily closed or this Agreement to be interrupted or cancelled.”
13. 03/03/21 – I emailed the venue:
“Given our proposed hire, was for a number of guests to attend i.e. 600 AM and 400 PM, and this is not possible under the current Government Guidelines and not Venue nor Hirer's fault so to speak, under Government Guidelines and advise it is apparent our Contract is "Frustrated".
With respect you advised not to move our initial date i.e. 2nd October 2020 suggesting "It should all be fine by then", which is not the case moving the date to 30th May 2021 either.
We are reluctant to move the date and request a Refund. A refund is justified under the circumstances and suggest AML seek legal advise under the obligation and position of the venue in these circumstances and direct you to:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...on-and-refunds
I believe no cost has been incurred by AML with regard to our Hire having not even taken place and rather the Hirer (ourselves) incurred a loss of time, uncertainty and anxiety as a result of this. I don't hold AML responsible but nor should us the Hirer be and all is explained in the above link.”
14. 04/03/21 – Venue called me with the same advice I state they provided in Point 11.
15. 09/03/21 - I emailed the venue:
“Thanks for your phone call last Thursday 4th March 2021 following my below email, advising you will be in touch and escalate this to your legal team as such.
I was expecting a email following our conversation to confirm this as I requested to you on our call. This email affirms your call.
We look forward to hearing from you at earliest to move forward.”
16. 18/03/21 – I emailed the venue:
“I still await to hear from you regarding my previous emails.”
17. 19/03/21 – Venue replied:
“I have sent your email to my solicitor. Please wait reply from my solicitor.”
18. 26/03/21 – I emailed the venue:
“As per your last correspondence, it’s been 7 days and I would appreciate if you can give us an update ASAP or kindly provide your solicitors details so we can take this forward.
Also, please can you provide your method statement of your proposal to change dates.”
19. 29/03/21 - The venue forwarded me an email with correspondence between themselves and there solicitor:
[A] 04/03/21 - Venue to Solicitor
“We have revived new complain about the refund. Please reply him in your firm.
Please find out the attachment”
[B] 21/03/21 - Venue to Solicitor
“Please reply below email.”
[C] 29/03/21 - Venue to Solicitor
“Please reply this email below asap.”
20. 03/04/21 – I emailed the venue which I have had no response for:
“Please can you respond to this email No later than EOD Tuesday 27th April 2021.
(Venue representative), I am massively disappointed to say the least with your communication as per the email chain below. You have not satisfactorily provided any feedback as per the situation to hand nor importantly provided a conclusion to close this matter, and simply forwarded this email chain to (Solicitor).
(Solicitor), I can only assume you have been forwarded this email chain as per X's Email "Please reply to below email" (which makes no sense in my opinion and are unnecessarily being made to / be obliged to reply to this email chain, Shital having forwarded you the below). I assume you are Sattavis Patidar Centre's legal representative and appreciate your kind and honest input into this scenario if you are representing Sattavis Patidar Centre.
(Solicitor), can you kindly clarify if you are representing Sattavis Patidar Centre with respect of Covid-19 Bookings.
If so, (Solicitor), as per the email chain below, with respect, I hope you can appreciate that myself - X and X - My fiancée booked the Sattavis Patidar Centre in good faith to host our Indian Wedding and Reception originally for the 2nd October 2020 and later through persuasion changed the date, to a later date i.e. 30th May 2021.
Given the 2nd October 2020 was not honourable by Sattavis due to Covid-19 Government Wedding Guidelines at the time, we were pressured to move the date, although I did request at that time a refund is desirable. Though we were informed by X we have to move the date, to not lose the money we have already paid / deposit.
Unfortunately Sattavis are unable to host our wedding as per the agreed terms i.e. Wedding for 600 Guests in the Morning and 400 Guest in the Evening, on 30th May 2021 given the Covid-19 Government Wedding / CMA Guidelines.
As per X's email, she has stated from there terms and conditions which I state for all's reference:
X. Clause 30.1 states as follows:
“AML will not be liable for any loss due to any breakdown of machinery, failure of supply of electricity or other supplies, leakage of water, fire, government restriction, civil commotion, insurrection, labour disputes of whatever nature or act of God or any other reason beyond the control of either party which may cause the Sattavis Patidar Centre to be temporarily closed or this Agreement to be interrupted or cancelled.”
With respect I am not a solicitor (Solicitor), but would appreciate your feedback, considering the following:
1. What relevance does the above clause have with respect of Covid-19 Government Wedding / CMA Guidelines?
2. We have been recommended to move the date a 3rd time (up to May 2022 I believe - sadly X / Sattavis representatives do not put communicate on email and prefer to talk on the phone, assumingly to avoid any record of what has been said or not) again this has been proposed to not lose our money we have already paid / deposit.
3. We have paid £730 + £3,650 = £4,380 to date.
4. We do not want to move the date, and would like a refund.
5. Respectfully Sattavis have not incurred any costs as a result of not providing our booking.
6. I do not hold X personally responsible for the scenario to hand though believe a lot of people whom have made bookings with Sattavis have been unfortunately at the brunt of Sattavis not honouring refunds / doing the right thing for the community whom contributed to build this venue.
7. The contract, if it is even a contract has not been signed by any Sattavis representative
8. The contract has not been signed by my Fiancée whom is the joint hirer.
9. Considering, 7. and 8. Is the contract even valid?
Please refer to:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...on-and-refunds
"Refunds
Where lockdown laws prevent or prevented a wedding from going ahead on the agreed date, the starting point under the law is that the consumer should be offered a full refund (see section 1(2) of the Law Reform (Frustrated Contracts) Act 1943).
Consumers would be entitled to refunds even where they have paid what the business says are ‘non-refundable’ deposits or other advance payments."
I would like to nip this in the bud. Again a timely response is necessary, and I trust the above satisfies a conclusive refund to us respectively.
Any response to this is only acceptable via email only for record.”
Sadly I do not know what to do and seek advice from Legal Beagles. I attach the Venues Terms and Conditions FYI - Advait Management Ltd (2).docx. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We do not want to move the hire date a 3rd time and would like a refund even if subject to any admin cost incurred by the venue.
Many thanks in advance,
Pos1tive
I have not required the kind assistance of any Legal Beagles for some years but am in a situation now where I could do with some good legal advice regarding my wedding venue hire amidst Covid-19 and cancellation / refunds. Our venue is refusing to provide a refund and asking us t move the date a 3rd time which we do not want to do.
Background:
My fiancée and I, booked a wedding venue to host our wedding and Reception at Sattavis Patidar Centre (ADVAIT (MANAGEMENT) LTD (Company Number: 05392017) – based in North West London, Wembley. I am actually part of a community whom donated to build this venue to service the wider community as a place to host functions.
We were to have 600 Guests in the Morning (Indian Wedding) and 400 Guests in the Evening (Reception).
Course of Events:
1. 01/10/19 Onwards - We were in discussions with the venue since October 2019 about making a booking to host our wedding there in October 2020.
2. 09/12/19 - We booked the venue for 03/10/20 (some 10 months in advance) to host our wedding and paid a deposit of £730 of £7,300 (total hire charge).
3. 13/01/20 - We paid a further £3,650 towards our wedding hire. Total paid as of 13/01/20 was £730 + £3,650 = £4,380 of £7,300 (total hire charge).
4. 27/03/20 - Covid-19 restrictions started to be put in place for hosting weddings and me and my fiancée started to become worried if we can still host our wedding as desired on 03/10/20.
5. 07/04/20 - We raised our concerns amidst Covid-19 with the venue and requested to cancel the booking and a refund respectively of £4,380 paid to date.
6. 07/04/20 - The venue refused to provide a refund and offered only to move the initial booked date (03/10/20) up to any available date up to May 2021.
7. 11/05/20 - We reluctantly moved our initial booking of 03/10/20 to 30/05/21 as now our money was tied up with the venue and we had no other option and we assumed by our new proposed date of 30/05/21 that Covid-19 wedding restrictions would be resolved / lifted.
8. 11/05/20 - We received a new booking form / invoice from the venue.
9. 11/05/20 - The hire cost increased from £7,300 to £10,750 as the new proposed date 30/05/21 was “Peak Season”. We therefore as of 11/05/20 had paid £4,380 of £10,750 for our proposed new hire date of 30/05/21.
Recent Correspondence between Myself and the Venue:
10. 28/02/21 - We raised our concerns amidst Covid-19 for the second time with the venue and requested to cancel the booking and a refund respectively of £4,380 paid to date.
I emailed the venue:
“I trust you are well and keeping safe during this pandemic.
I believe you have been in discussions with my partner regarding our Hire initially moved from 2nd October 2020 to 30th May 2021 as per considerations regarding this Pandemic / Covid.
With respect, what are the next steps from you / AML as I believe you are not in a position to host our wedding for 600 Guests in the Morning and 400 Guest in the Evening on 30th May 2021 given current Government Guidelines.
I look forward to hearing from you timely.”
11. 01/03/21 - The venue refused to provide a refund and offered only to move the now 2nd moved date (30/05/21) up to any available date up to May 2022 which would make it apparent we would have moved our proposed hire date a 3rd time if we did.
Venue emailed:
“In accordance with the terms and conditions, no refund shall be given. We are willing to postpone to another date, save for that the date agreed must be before the end of May 2022.”
12. 02/03/21 – Venue emailed a section of their Terms and Conditions:
“1. Clause 30.1 states as follows:
AML will not be liable for any loss due to any breakdown of machinery, failure of supply of electricity or other supplies, leakage of water, fire, government restriction, civil commotion, insurrection, labour disputes of whatever nature or act of God or any other reason beyond the control of either party which may cause the Sattavis Patidar Centre to be temporarily closed or this Agreement to be interrupted or cancelled.”
13. 03/03/21 – I emailed the venue:
“Given our proposed hire, was for a number of guests to attend i.e. 600 AM and 400 PM, and this is not possible under the current Government Guidelines and not Venue nor Hirer's fault so to speak, under Government Guidelines and advise it is apparent our Contract is "Frustrated".
With respect you advised not to move our initial date i.e. 2nd October 2020 suggesting "It should all be fine by then", which is not the case moving the date to 30th May 2021 either.
We are reluctant to move the date and request a Refund. A refund is justified under the circumstances and suggest AML seek legal advise under the obligation and position of the venue in these circumstances and direct you to:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...on-and-refunds
I believe no cost has been incurred by AML with regard to our Hire having not even taken place and rather the Hirer (ourselves) incurred a loss of time, uncertainty and anxiety as a result of this. I don't hold AML responsible but nor should us the Hirer be and all is explained in the above link.”
14. 04/03/21 – Venue called me with the same advice I state they provided in Point 11.
15. 09/03/21 - I emailed the venue:
“Thanks for your phone call last Thursday 4th March 2021 following my below email, advising you will be in touch and escalate this to your legal team as such.
I was expecting a email following our conversation to confirm this as I requested to you on our call. This email affirms your call.
We look forward to hearing from you at earliest to move forward.”
16. 18/03/21 – I emailed the venue:
“I still await to hear from you regarding my previous emails.”
17. 19/03/21 – Venue replied:
“I have sent your email to my solicitor. Please wait reply from my solicitor.”
18. 26/03/21 – I emailed the venue:
“As per your last correspondence, it’s been 7 days and I would appreciate if you can give us an update ASAP or kindly provide your solicitors details so we can take this forward.
Also, please can you provide your method statement of your proposal to change dates.”
19. 29/03/21 - The venue forwarded me an email with correspondence between themselves and there solicitor:
[A] 04/03/21 - Venue to Solicitor
“We have revived new complain about the refund. Please reply him in your firm.
Please find out the attachment”
[B] 21/03/21 - Venue to Solicitor
“Please reply below email.”
[C] 29/03/21 - Venue to Solicitor
“Please reply this email below asap.”
20. 03/04/21 – I emailed the venue which I have had no response for:
“Please can you respond to this email No later than EOD Tuesday 27th April 2021.
(Venue representative), I am massively disappointed to say the least with your communication as per the email chain below. You have not satisfactorily provided any feedback as per the situation to hand nor importantly provided a conclusion to close this matter, and simply forwarded this email chain to (Solicitor).
(Solicitor), I can only assume you have been forwarded this email chain as per X's Email "Please reply to below email" (which makes no sense in my opinion and are unnecessarily being made to / be obliged to reply to this email chain, Shital having forwarded you the below). I assume you are Sattavis Patidar Centre's legal representative and appreciate your kind and honest input into this scenario if you are representing Sattavis Patidar Centre.
(Solicitor), can you kindly clarify if you are representing Sattavis Patidar Centre with respect of Covid-19 Bookings.
If so, (Solicitor), as per the email chain below, with respect, I hope you can appreciate that myself - X and X - My fiancée booked the Sattavis Patidar Centre in good faith to host our Indian Wedding and Reception originally for the 2nd October 2020 and later through persuasion changed the date, to a later date i.e. 30th May 2021.
Given the 2nd October 2020 was not honourable by Sattavis due to Covid-19 Government Wedding Guidelines at the time, we were pressured to move the date, although I did request at that time a refund is desirable. Though we were informed by X we have to move the date, to not lose the money we have already paid / deposit.
Unfortunately Sattavis are unable to host our wedding as per the agreed terms i.e. Wedding for 600 Guests in the Morning and 400 Guest in the Evening, on 30th May 2021 given the Covid-19 Government Wedding / CMA Guidelines.
As per X's email, she has stated from there terms and conditions which I state for all's reference:
X. Clause 30.1 states as follows:
“AML will not be liable for any loss due to any breakdown of machinery, failure of supply of electricity or other supplies, leakage of water, fire, government restriction, civil commotion, insurrection, labour disputes of whatever nature or act of God or any other reason beyond the control of either party which may cause the Sattavis Patidar Centre to be temporarily closed or this Agreement to be interrupted or cancelled.”
With respect I am not a solicitor (Solicitor), but would appreciate your feedback, considering the following:
1. What relevance does the above clause have with respect of Covid-19 Government Wedding / CMA Guidelines?
2. We have been recommended to move the date a 3rd time (up to May 2022 I believe - sadly X / Sattavis representatives do not put communicate on email and prefer to talk on the phone, assumingly to avoid any record of what has been said or not) again this has been proposed to not lose our money we have already paid / deposit.
3. We have paid £730 + £3,650 = £4,380 to date.
4. We do not want to move the date, and would like a refund.
5. Respectfully Sattavis have not incurred any costs as a result of not providing our booking.
6. I do not hold X personally responsible for the scenario to hand though believe a lot of people whom have made bookings with Sattavis have been unfortunately at the brunt of Sattavis not honouring refunds / doing the right thing for the community whom contributed to build this venue.
7. The contract, if it is even a contract has not been signed by any Sattavis representative
8. The contract has not been signed by my Fiancée whom is the joint hirer.
9. Considering, 7. and 8. Is the contract even valid?
Please refer to:
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...on-and-refunds
"Refunds
Where lockdown laws prevent or prevented a wedding from going ahead on the agreed date, the starting point under the law is that the consumer should be offered a full refund (see section 1(2) of the Law Reform (Frustrated Contracts) Act 1943).
Consumers would be entitled to refunds even where they have paid what the business says are ‘non-refundable’ deposits or other advance payments."
I would like to nip this in the bud. Again a timely response is necessary, and I trust the above satisfies a conclusive refund to us respectively.
Any response to this is only acceptable via email only for record.”
Sadly I do not know what to do and seek advice from Legal Beagles. I attach the Venues Terms and Conditions FYI - Advait Management Ltd (2).docx. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. We do not want to move the hire date a 3rd time and would like a refund even if subject to any admin cost incurred by the venue.
Many thanks in advance,
Pos1tive
)
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