mouser...hi all

[mouser5]

i have a question on inheritance distribution problem

[mouser5]

a brief history on my problem my wife and i inherited a large bungalow there are two executors,my wife and her sister,both are the only benaficiaries,it was decided to split the property into two,my wife retaining one half (we also lived there to take care of her father) the other half being sold by the other sister,work was duly completed and the sister marketed her part of the property,half of the total cost was due to be returned to us on the sale by the sister,however, the half being sold did not get offers anywhere near the price we had been told it should,the sister then withdraws the property from the market ,siting that it was unfair ,and that we had taken advantage of her,although both propertys were very simaler in value,we are then told she will not pay anything towards the conversion work,she is also claiming we should pay rent on our part of the building to the estate,she had accepted her part of the property ,only rejecting it when no offers were made ,she had never lived there herself,when the dissagrement became evident we advized the sister rent out her half of the property ,this was ignored, how do we stand on these two issues legally...many tks .....mouser

[des8]

More questions before answers!

When did your father in law pass away?
You refer to "executors" so presumably there was a will.
What were the terms of the will?
When was probate granted?
Was the division of the property registered with Land Registry?
Are the sisters registered as owners of their respective parts?
Was there a written agreement regarding payment of the costs of building works?
Can we assume the division of the property received planning permission, and the works signed off by building control?

[mouser5]

hi there.questions do only ever lead to more indeed,thankyou for answering so fast
no 1. 2017
2 there was a will ,the terms of which were the property was left to the two sisters jointly
3 probate was granted a few months after his passing
4 the property was converted in complience with local council planning rules,i assume in turn that land registry is informed
5 they are not registered as seperate owners, the convertion was carried out and leases were drawn up in the name of each,but not signed
6 all the work was carried out on a verbal contract only,the payment for half of the convertion falling due on the sale of the sisters unit
7 all works were carried out with full permissions, and duly signed off by building control,i acted as main contractor for all the works with of course ,the full aggrement of both sisters

the sister in law marketed the half of the converted building for about six months,only when the property didnt sell she raised the rent issue, and contested the costings,there was never any mention of rent before this time

[des8]

So the estate has been distributed and the sisters are registered as owners of the property as joint tenants or tenants in common?

I'm just trying to understand on what basis the properties are owned and registered.
If they are not owned and registered independently how was one sister going to sell the freehold of one unit?
Or was she selling the lease of one (although the separate leases aren't yet signed?

However , a beneficiary cannot disclaim part of a legacy (it's all or nothing) and it has to be disclaimed within two years of death of the donor.

And as for claiming occupation rent......
1)your wife is owner of the property so doesn't pay rent
2) the sister could have occupied the other half of the property (i assume she wasn't denied access) so a condition necessary for that claim doesn't exist

[mouser5]

DES8...again thenkyou for your response
i understand ,as the sisters inherited the property they are joint tenants
leases were drawn up for the flats,just not signed before the dispute arose,the two areas were registered to that extent and on that basis one was marketed
the point of occupational rent is really our big issue here in so much as it seems to me we have no choise but to accept it being charged,my wife owns one part of the property as a joint tenant,and yes ,the other sister could have occupied or rented the unused seperated unit,she is still insisting she has the choice to use it or leave it empty,(i believe the market rent on our units would be broadly the same )can she impose a finacial burden on the other executor within her rights as a executor of the will?i cannot really get my head around the fudiciary responsability side of this,she appears to be able to use this as a means of giving herself a financial advantage as a benaficiary, she would be entitled to half of any rent due to the estate of course
i have read up as far as i can online and in every case it seems that in law we cant argue with this rent thing,seems to me to be a sensable law from the point of veiw of stopping missuse by a sitting benaficiary blocking a distribution of an inheritance,but in our case it seems to just be seems to be veiwed as a method of gaining a financial advantage over the other benaficiary ,we need ,if it exists,some means to argue our point,the financial implications of this are huge to us
regards
mouser

[des8]

[QUOTE=
i understand ,as the sisters inherited the property they are joint tenants
[/QUOTE]

For certainty on the way in which these properties are owned have you checked Land Registry Get information about property and land: Search the register - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)


. Sister is asking for rent for one flat but states she has choice of using or leaving empty the other flat.
As she obviously thinks she has control of that flat, ask her for the rent!

[mouser5]

We have indeed tried that approach,her response is she is under no obligation to do anything with the other flat,but as we are in residence we have to pay ,have you any idea how i can go about finding any case law that may support our position on this?any assistance is greatly appreciated

[des8]

Regarding Occupational rent read Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996 (ToLATA) sec 12 - 13.
Especially Sec 13 4 (a)
(4) The matters to which trustees are to have regard in exercising the powers conferred by this section include—
(a) the intentions of the person or persons (if any) who created the trust,

As I understand from your posts the intention was that the property was left in equal measure to the two sisters, who agreed to divide it into two flats.
One sister resides in one flat, the other sister has the other flat to dispose of as she wishes.
I don't see that she has been denied access as half is in her possession

Has she started or threatened legal proceedings?

As for case law a starting place is Bailii.org, but good luck trawling through the cases listed.

[Guest]

Is it possible that you can raise funds and buy her sister's half, obviously as there would not be an agent's fees ect it would reduce the price? strange how the problems start when money is involved.

[mouser5]

Thankyou again for the time and effort Des8
i have had a look at the tolata act,looks as if the sister is within her rights to request rent from us,i can see also we have a good argument from the point of veiw that she has not been excluded from half of the property,she is already using solicitors advice, they say she does not have to use her option to use the property,simply by being here we are deemed due to pay,must say it seems unfair that one sibling can manipulate the system for her own advantage so easily,i would have thought the protection drawn up in the tolata act could have some inbuilt flexability or discretion, we will have to go to the expense of legal representation on this now.
Archie 2. We had looked at the possability of buying her out, unfortunatly we dont have those sort of sums of money available, indeed the smell of money seems brings out the worse in some,perhaps anyone else reading this thread will. be forwarned of such a pitfall as we have made here.
I will post any updates as the situation developes, take care everybody, stay safe

[mouser5]

hello again folks
further to the above conversation,we now have it confirmed that we have incurred occupational rent from our legal represetative, so that is no longer an issue,we are liable.
our only redress is the fact of part of the building that could have produced revenue for the estate has not been used as such,dispite our early request it should be rented
i have trawled through bailii to try to find some directly relavant cases that might support the argument that one executor is manipulating the system for personal benafit,with no real results,in the main because i cant find anything where a property has been split in the way this one has.
at the moment its seems the only option would be to take the matter to court to ask for one executor to be relieved of there duties for missuse of fudiciary responsabilitys,this course means expence ,ongoing argument,and the result is likely to be an independant mediator would be appointed after the other executor counter claimed
so....its a big ask maybe,but if anyone can find any legal judgement anywhere that can support our case i would obviosly be greatly appreciated
in hopeful anticipation
mouser5

[des8]

I understand the intention was to split the bungalow into two, each sister owning one part.
However the properties are not yet registered separately in the sisters respective names, and so remain part of the deceased father's estate.
As such the estate is entitled to rent from the occupying sister
However there was a lease agreement (albeit unsigned) to allow the parties to live in "their" part rent free.
An agreement does not have to be signed for it to be enforceable.

Obviously you are only able to post up a precis of the situation, and as you are finding out the law revolves round small points.
You might find more pointers in these links:
Can an executor charge backdated rent to a beneficiary in a probate property? - LandlordZONE Forums
Contentious Probate: Property and Probate | Else Solicitors (elselaw.co.uk)
Should a beneficiary who continues to occupy the deceased's house be forced to pay rent to the other beneficiaries? | Practical Law (thomsonreuters.com) (You will have to sign up to access this site)

And this site has interesting comments about occupation rent and equitable accounting which might be of use
Equitable Accounting - Some Basic Principles | Regency Barristers Chambers (regencychambers.co.uk)

[mouser5]

once again thankyou for your input des8
looking at the cases you have kindly found our best hopes appear to be the principal of equitable accounting, it would indeed seem to be the only option if we cannot establish the fact the property had been affectivly split when one sister marketed one flat
your comment about the little points of the law are indeed telling in our case
one other point that may count in our favour is the." intent " of the arrangment we made to redevelop into two units, we kept our part of this commitment, obviously the sister was content up until a sale did not materialise.
i am waiting for the reuters site to register me,perhaps there may be a bit more info there.
i have a feeling the next stage will be an attempt at mediation

will keep any updates coming....tks again

[mouser5]

looks as if "practical law-thomsonreuters.com" is only available to those in the legal trade,not for us mere mortals