Court order to obtain US death certificate

[Guest]

Hello


My father was adopted as a young child and never knew who his real parents were. I have recently found out who his mother and father were using DNA tests. I have obtained his original birth certificate from the GRO.

His mother was in the army (ATS) and later emigrated to Tucson, Arizona where she died. I would like to obtain her UK military records. To do this I need her death certificate. The Pima, Arizona records office will only give copies of death certificates to descendants. I applied as her grandchild and sent them birth certificates for myself, my father and his mother along with my father's adoption certificate.

They said the relationship was not proven because his adoption certificate is a "sealed record" that they treat as his birth record and it does not mention his birth mother. They said the only way they could give me the death certificate was if I obtained a court order:

Any court order as long as it is a certified court order and in a language we can read, or have it translated. In other words a court order from England will work as long as it is certified that Vital Records can issue a death certificate to you.

I have searched online and a "mandamus writ" sounds like what I would need, but apparently they are drastic and rarely used.

Does anyone have any advice?

Thank you

Patrick

[Aged William]

Have you tried here...

https://law.stackexchange.com/questions

It has a number of American contributors who may be able to assist.

[patchnpuki]

Thank you for the advice. I will try there. I think I might need an injunction rather than a mandamus writ.

[efpom]

An applicant who requires a copy of the service record of a deceased former member of HM forces, is required to produce a copy of the deceased's death certificate.

In English law, a biological parent ceases to be a child's legal parent the day before that child is adopted. It follows that an offspring of that child is not the (legal) grandchild of the biological grandparent.

If Arizona law follows English law, you do not fall into any of the categories that would be automatically entitled to a copy of the death certificate of your father's biological mother.

So the first question you should seek to have answered is whether you do have, as a matter of the law of Arizona, that automatic right.

If it turns out that you do not enjoy that right, you may be able to obtain a court order which nevertheless compels the State authorities to provide a copy of the death certificate to you.

I am pretty certain that a British court would not have jurisdiction to issue an order which would compel the State authorities in Arizona to furnish a copy of a death certificate to you.

[patchnpuki]

Thank you for your informative (if disappointing!) answer. I think you're right and I'm not entitled to a copy of the death certificate, but then why did they suggest I could get a court order?

To obtain the HM forces records you just need to provide the death certificate, you don't need to prove any relationship. If they just want this to prove the person has died, maybe I could explain the situation and they might accept the evidence I have that she is dead?

The other option is to apply in 12 years time as they say "if the date of birth of the individual was more than 116 years ago, the requirement to provide a death certificate will be waived".

[efpom]

You could appraise the Secretary of State for Defence directly, or through your MP, of the difficulty you face and ask him to waive the death certificate requirement.

I think you would have to present cogent reasons for seeking the information. You will, of course, need to provide the deceased's full name, date of birth and service number.

[patchnpuki]

Hello again

I have asked the Ministry of Defence if it would be possible to get the military records without a death certificate and they said no. I haven't tried to go through my MP or the Secretary of State yet.

Somebody else suggested getting a local lawyer in Tucson to petition the Pima records office to give me the death certificate based on me needing it for genealogical research. I have been trying to find a local lawyer who would do this without success so far.

Like EFPOM, others have said that a UK court would not have the jurisdiction to force the Pima records office to give me the certificate, but I am drawn back to the reply from the records office:

Any court order as long as it is a certified court order and in a language we can read, or have it translated. In other words a court order from England will work as long as it is certified that Vital Records can issue a death certificate to you.

I have looked up the law in Arizona for obtaining death certificates and it includes a list of people who are entitled to obtain a death certificate. One of these is:

A person designated in a court order to receive a certified copy of the deceased individual’s certificate of death registration;

I know a UK court would not have the power to force the Pima records office to do something it would not normally do. This means I can't get a UK court order that says "the court compels the Pima records office to give this person the death certificate". I am wondering if it would be possible to get something that says something like "the court believes this person should be given the death certificate". It sounds like the Pima records office are not that strict in the type of court order they accept as long as it says they "can issue" a certificate. Or am I just grabbing at straws?