Failing to provide information relating to the identification of a driver

[islandgirl]

If the trial in Feb is fail to provide then it will hinge around what you sent when and your correspondence with the Police. It may be as narrow as that. As for the evidence re who was driving, in theory you could have gone to collect the vehilce from Luton (I know you didn't but there is no proof that it was not you). A solicitor may be able to make a strong case to have the case set aside but if it goes to court you will possibly need the actual driver there to be cross examined. The fact that a solicitor has said it should not have gone to court is a good thing. Go and see him / her or another asap. Without seeing the other side's case it is hard to know what they are claiming - please seek advice and keep us informed.

[Supercars]

If the trial in Feb is fail to provide then it will hinge around what you sent when and your correspondence with the Police. It may be as narrow as that. As for the evidence re who was driving, in theory you could have gone to collect the vehilce from Luton (I know you didn't but there is no proof that it was not you). A solicitor may be able to make a strong case to have the case set aside but if it goes to court you will possibly need the actual driver there to be cross examined. The fact that a solicitor has said it should not have gone to court is a good thing. Go and see him / her or another asap. Without seeing the other side's case it is hard to know what they are claiming - please seek advice and keep us informed.

Do you know if there's any way that we can find out from the court or police exactly what the prosecutor is claiming?

[islandgirl]

What was said in court yesterday? Yes they should have to disclose their case before a trial but a solicitor will know how to get the information

[Supercars]

What was said in court yesterday? Yes they should have to disclose their case before a trial but a solicitor will know how to get the information

Is there any way we can get the information as because we're a company the cost of a solicitor will be more than the fine if found guilty and if we are not found guilty then we can't claim back legal costs?

[islandgirl]

A brief look at the sentencing guidelines gives a fine level up to £1000 for a company. Then there will be costs. Full trial may be £650 or so. You may be able to claim back costs if acquitted though I do not know if this applies to a police prosecution: it should! Here is some info: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-ba...riminal-courts
You could write to the Police prosecutor and ask for pre-trial disclosure of all the information against you. Ambushing (not revealing a central part of the case you rely on) is not allowed by either side. Was a trial prepration form filled in at the hearing (when the Legal Advisor asks both sides how long it will take, how many witnesses they are calling etc)?

[Supercars]

A brief look at the sentencing guidelines gives a fine level up to £1000 for a company. Then there will be costs. Full trial may be £650 or so. You may be able to claim back costs if acquitted though I do not know if this applies to a police prosecution: it should! Here is some info: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-ba...riminal-courts
You could write to the Police prosecutor and ask for pre-trial disclosure of all the information against you. Ambushing (not revealing a central part of the case you rely on) is not allowed by either side. Was a trial prepration form filled in at the hearing (when the Legal Advisor asks both sides how long it will take, how many witnesses they are calling etc)?

Hi I believe my manager said that no one from the police attended the hearing.

[islandgirl]

Someone must have represented the prosecution - it was presumably a hearing where if you had pled guilty you would have been sentenced but if not a trial date is fixed (I spent a day doing these this week!). Someone must have read the facts of the case out in court. Was it magistrates or a DJ? There are only 3 organisations who can prosecute as far as I am aware a) Police b)CPS and c) RSPCA. Usually the Legal Advisor will then guess the length of the trial and will ask both parties how many witnesses they anticipate calling etc. They will then check for a space in the calender. I am surprised you got Feb - we are at March and beyond for non urgent trials.

[Supercars]

Someone must have represented the prosecution - it was presumably a hearing where if you had pled guilty you would have been sentenced but if not a trial date is fixed (I spent a day doing these this week!). Someone must have read the facts of the case out in court. Was it magistrates or a DJ? There are only 3 organisations who can prosecute as far as I am aware a) Police b)CPS and c) RSPCA. Usually the Legal Advisor will then guess the length of the trial and will ask both parties how many witnesses they anticipate calling etc. They will then check for a space in the calender. I am surprised you got Feb - we are at March and beyond for non urgent trials.

I've just had a chat with my manager and he said there was a magistrate that who left the room. There was then a prosecutor there but my manager is adamant she wasn't from the police. He thinks she is there for all cases. He said she read through the evidence and then gave my manager some time to discuss it but then said there's too much evidence and there isn't enough time to go through everything there so it had to go to trial. He said the magistrate then came back in and asked how he pleaded and it was then sent to trial

[islandgirl]

I am very confused by the procedure that went on I must confess. Yes the prosecutor may have been the normal one but as I understand it the case is brought by the Police and not the Crown. The fact that there is so much evidence makes it certain that you need help at trial. Go and get a free solicitor's appointment and go through it - ask how much they would charge. You may be surprised. You are looking at potentally close to £2k if found guilty. Contact the Court - explain that you are going to trial but do not know how to get the opposition's information - they may help you.

[Supercars]

I am very confused by the procedure that went on I must confess. Yes the prosecutor may have been the normal one but as I understand it the case is brought by the Police and not the Crown. The fact that there is so much evidence makes it certain that you need help at trial. Go and get a free solicitor's appointment and go through it - ask how much they would charge. You may be surprised. You are looking at potentally close to £2k if found guilty. Contact the Court - explain that you are going to trial but do not know how to get the opposition's information - they may help you.

We spoke to a solicitor who told us to contact the CPS to access the information so we've emailed them. He said his fees are £1800 but the fine if we're found guilty would be around £1600.

[islandgirl]

Wow those fees are higher than I would have expected in a case like this. The fine would be as I said - up to £1k plus £650 costs plus surcharge. I hpoe that the CPS give you the information you need quickly. You may need to call witnesses etc. I fully understand you trying to do it yourself and will help if at all possible as hopefully will others on here.

[Supercars]

Wow those fees are higher than I would have expected in a case like this. The fine would be as I said - up to £1k plus £650 costs plus surcharge. I hpoe that the CPS give you the information you need quickly. You may need to call witnesses etc. I fully understand you trying to do it yourself and will help if at all possible as hopefully will others on here.

The solicitor said once we've got the information we could try and write to the CPS to get it withdrew from court but he's not sure if they would. Do you reckon we'd have a chance of getting this thrown our without having to go on trial for it?

[islandgirl]

Writing to the CPS (if that is who the solicitor said to write to) with your evidence will cost nothing only time and is worth a shot. Do it quickly!
No idea how much chance you have.
Your case needs to be well written and detail exactly that you complied with the law by sending the info back within the time specified, that you sent the further info requested (late but had corresponded with them re it being late),
You need to detail any other proof that he was driving that you have (the pics are not enough sadly - emails relating to the hire, receipts, statement of employees would be much better than just the pics or tracker info which merely shows where the van was at a certain time not who was driving )
State that if they refuse and it goes to trial you intend to call witnesses eg people from your workplace who would stand up in court on oath and say the van was hired out to this person and of course the actual driver.
You will have to ask the court how to go about notifying witnesses etc that they must come to court - I do not know the procedure but someone else here might?
If the solicitor said that you could try this then it is worth a shot!

[Supercars]

Writing to the CPS (if that is who the solicitor said to write to) with your evidence will cost nothing only time and is worth a shot. Do it quickly!
No idea how much chance you have.
Your case needs to be well written and detail exactly that you complied with the law by sending the info back within the time specified, that you sent the further info requested (late but had corresponded with them re it being late),
You need to detail any other proof that he was driving that you have (the pics are not enough sadly - emails relating to the hire, receipts, statement of employees would be much better than just the pics or tracker info which merely shows where the van was at a certain time not who was driving )
State that if they refuse and it goes to trial you intend to call witnesses eg people from your workplace who would stand up in court on oath and say the van was hired out to this person and of course the actual driver.
You will have to ask the court how to go about notifying witnesses etc that they must come to court - I do not know the procedure but someone else here might?
If the solicitor said that you could try this then it is worth a shot!

We are not sure if we have any other proof. The actual driver won't attend either as we know its him driving but he's told the police that he returned it the day before in order to get out of the fine and that's why this has gone this far. He lied saying that it wasn't him which is why this has gone this far and unfortunately the only proof we have that he had it is the tracker screenshots showing the car at his house. There's no other reason the car would be at his house unless he had it. Is there no way we can get it threw out using the fact that he said he returned it on the 28th but the car was still in Watford minutes away from his house on the 29th? Also the police providing us the wrong information which caused us to send the wrong evidence and we didn't find this out until we got the court papers?

We've had issues before with customers claiming a speeding fine wasn't them and we've provided tracker screenshots and it was resolved.

[islandgirl]

All that information needs to go in your letter to the CPS (wrong info from police etc) but add that you wish to be a witness and will state the facts under oath. If you call the driver and he does not attend that is not your problem. If he attends and lies he commits purjury and can go to prison. Is there anyone else in your company who would swear under oath that the van was hired out?