private parking charges

[spikey43]

Hi there i'm in receipt of a parking charge at Fistral beach Newquay . we arrived there on our holiday and attended the beach and paid via the just park app. unfortunately we were 15 minutes late leaving for the single reason that there was a traffic jam within the car park with all cars at a stand still otherwise we would of been out on time. now i realise this is going to be difficult to prove as i did not stand around and take photos of it . Still i belive £100 even reduced to £60 to be unfair penalty as we had paid in good faith and were not attempting to cheat the system. 15minutes does not equate to a £100 / £60 loss on their side . attached is the letter received through the post. advice is welcome . https://imgur.com/a/YvQK4XB

[ostell]

Edit to remove any hint at who the driver could be.

Fistral beach is a well known trouble spot and the cameras are so far removed from the parking. There is a court case concerning that very car park where the judge ruled that driving around the car park is not parking. Here's a link to a mention: https://parking-prankster.blogspot.c...t-parking.html

Here's a start of an appeal, add in the court case

Dear Sirs,

I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

You have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the invitation to keeper in the format prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.

There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.

Yours etc


post up the final response for critique before you send

[ostell]

There is also case law at appeal which says that the contract begins when the green button is pressed after the money is paid. This case

It might help in the timing.

[spikey43]

Hows this


Dear Sirs,
I have just received your Notice to Keeper xxxxx for vehicle VRM xxxx

We are in dispute of this parking charge notice given that we have access to evidence of being a genuine customer of the car park at the time of the offence with payment of 3hrs 10:11 up to 13:12 giving until 13:22 to exit the car park under the minimum grace period for which guidance is 10 minutes according to the BPA Code of practice. Therefore, leaving 5 minutes for which a penalty may be incurred . The ANPR evidence only shows the time of entry and exit to the car park, and not the true time parked. However the whole time period from 13:10 till 13:27 was spent attempting to leave Fistral beach car park due to heavy stationary traffic preventing entrance or exit of any vehicle which is not taken into account by the ANPR. This time period was not spent parked but attempting to leave the car park.

I refer to the recent case 3JD08399 ParkingEye v Ms X. (Altrincham 17/03/2014). Fistral Beach. The defendant spent 31 minutes waiting for a car park space during the crowded holiday season. The ANPR evidence was therefore not relevant as it showed the time in the car park, not the time parked. The judge ruled this was not against the terms and conditions of the signage. The aforementioned case directly relates to the current parking charge notice on 1/8/2020 in attempting to leave fistral beach car park .

Furthermore the 5 minutes assumed that the driver was overdue does not equate to a loss or a reasonable recompense on your part of £100 which is the charge issued to the keeper of the vehicle which is deemed inappropriate. As per the BPA Code of practice the charge should be proportionate to the offence. The case 3JD08399 ParkingEye v Ms X. (Altrincham 17/03/2014). Fistral Beach the The judge also stated that £100 was not likely to be a true pre-estimate of loss.

Further to this you have failed to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the invitation to keeper in the format prescribed by section 9 (2) (e) of the Act. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper.
There is no legal requirement to name the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.
I do not expect to hear from you again, or your debt collectors, except to confirm that no further action will be taken on this matter and my personal details have been removed from your records.
Yours etc

[ostell]

Have you still got the ticket with the time you pressed the button on the pay machine?

[spikey43]

it was bought via the JUST PARK APP so it shows in my purchase history on my phone but no physical ticket.

[ostell]

OK so you have a time that the contract started. How does that compare to the alleged overtime?

[spikey43]

the contract started at 10:11 and ended at 13:12 according to the app
we entered the car park at 10:01 and left the car park at 13:27 according to the ANPR

[ostell]

So you were delayed from exiting by 15 minutes, as you said, a delay caused by the exceptional traffic. They are supposed to give a reasonable grace period for exiting, a minimum of 10 minutes. Note this is a minimum, the actual amount should vary depending on the size of the site etc.

Edit: got the times wrong

[spikey43]

ok. do you believe the statement i have wrote above to be acceptable ?

[ostell]

Add in the BPA entry

Where a parking location is one where a limited period of parking is permitted, or where drivers contract to park for a defined period and pay for that service in advance (Pay & Display), this would be considered as a parking event and a Grace Period of at least 10 minutes must be added to the end of a parking event before you issue a PCN.

As the site is large and was busy then 10 minutes is insuffienct.

[spikey43]

much appreciated

[spikey43]

hello again. so the appeal has been dismissed by Initial parking (which was obvious would happen) they have given me a POPLA number to take the matter further. which i will do . is there any advice regarding the POPLA appeal process.
the Initial parking response to me is actually inaccurate in that it states we stayed 26 minutes longer than we should when in fact it was 15 minutes including the assumed 10 min grace period meaning effectively 5 minutes .
any advice on the next step welcome .

[ostell]

Remember that the 10 minutes is a minimum time and should be increased to account of conditions at the time. I have seen a video around that someone made about coming out if that location at a busy time

Try a POPLA appeal but they will probably reject but I think a judge would be happy with your explanation

[spikey43]

Update on this scenario. the POPLA appeal was rejected as per your suggestion . I am now being chased by the debt recovery company they have allocated to collect funds. They have upped the fine to £170 now from the initial £60 . not sure why they think doing this will make it more likely for me to pay rather than just engage in constructive mediation. Anyhow any further experience with this ? and is it likely that i will end up in court ? This is not something that happens every day so is all new to me . The situation is obscene really.
any further advice much appreciated.