Bailiff Fees

[Guest]

I have encountered bailiffs numerous times over the years of being in financial difficulty. More recently I had a very horrid experience with one specific well known company. It lead me to question everything he did and basically you may as well throw the regs in the bin. I also tried the ombudsman again useless.

So I took to the law. It seems I have uncovered a problem that is industry wide and I want to ask people in a specific position to get in touch, either message privately or on this thread.

If you have entered a controlled goods agreement, does not matter if stuck to or not, and your debt increased significantly by 300 or more, please get in touch.

They will know who I am already but I am trying to be cryptic as possible. As one case is currently heading to court and I am representing myself. I believe there is industry wide fraud happening and have 3 cases personally to back it up. One has already offered repayment but blamed an error, this is rubbish. It can be personal or business the law is the same.

Please get in touch as I want to bully them as much as they did my children.

[paulajayne]

"Please get in touch as I want to bully them as much as they did my children."

HOW?

[ploddertom]

Which Ombudsman and for what type of debt? You do need to explain more of what this is all about.

[plshelp!]

Which Ombudsman and for what type of debt? You do need to explain more of what this is all about.

Hi, Firstly sorry this is my thread i forgot my log in details. To answer some of the questions, difficult without giving away my identity not that i am that worried. Its an energy company, who i am still with and pay via prepayment an option available at the time but instead they closed one account opened another and CCJ for the initial balance. approx £1500.

It was then passed to a company i have had lots of experience with, they attended, it was xmas, the visit went bad when i closed our new front door, even though i had sent all details to company bailiff denied seeing evidence of HP and would clamp vehicle, i shut door after refusing entry, made dog safe turned back to see him opening door and attempting entry, i have all the footage of this so not making it up, he was trapped in the door but claimed peaceful entry, long story we called police, he pushed forward, police supported him said we need to go to court if believe entry was not peaceful. Bailiff and buddy stacked up my sons xmas pressies remote control cars, xbox etc stating get receipts, loudly within ear shot of kids, there goes Santa, kept pushing to go in the room children were in, threatened to have dog put down, within ear shot of children, even though he was aware it was locked safely away. Then entered a controlled goods agreement secured against two old TV's, £700 new and over 5 years old not even listing any identification, just brand for £2,500.

So lots of complaints made to no response acknowledged but no response, tried the HCEOA, entered email conversation at midnight on a Saturday and eventually hid behind regs, saying they are not obliged to offer a final response and we cannot act until you recieve one. This went on for 8 months and arguing to obtain footage, eventually solicitors respond, my old solicitors, who left me out of time, with very poor advice in previous case. I did know from previous dealings that they represented this firm as they used them against us to collect some fees.

So they respond to my complaint and offer ridiculous redacted footage that did not even back up their response. I then start looking closely at the laws and what i can really claim as i started a case in county court against them for the ridiculous writ of control and forced entry. asking for all monies returned and fees and damages. Through this i realised stage 2 fees had been applied. Controlled good agreement, first visit this is against regulations. I researched their fees case, as i still had the writ of control, the same first visit fees applied stage 2. I checked another writ with a different company same circumstance, same again stage 2 fees and much more applied. So i threaten action for the initial case with their fees and a complaint to legal ombudsman, TCG Regs 2014 6(1)(b) only stage 1 enforceable. This is their solicitors representing collection of their own fees, in this matter they offered repayment immediately stating error, this was collected 5 years ago. The current case they say is different i cant see how, the other firm is currently mulling over my complaint of section 2 fraud, obtaining money by misrepresentation. I have now expanded my case currently for the breech of regs and fraud. I have requested at least interest for the monies collected 5 years ago by a very experienced TV star bailiff, making a known error !!! to no response again.

I cant be alone with 3 cases of this nature there must be many others that stage 2 fees have been added at the first visit, when entering a controlled goods agreement, I want to get others to reclaim these fees. I think its industry wide and Fraud.

[plshelp!]

"Please get in touch as I want to bully them as much as they did my children."

HOW?

Hi, please see post response above. Thanks

[ploddertom]

There are a few things you need to be aware of.

You say he came in through a closed door that you had refused him entry, He has done nothing wrong in his actions as he is permitted to gain entry via normal means which in this case was an unlocked door - he cannot be classed as a trespasser. I agree it was wrong of him to use items provided for a child as a bargaining tool. After all he may only seize goods belonging to the debtor and these were plainly not.

When he seized the TVs did he also seize the remote controls for them - any controlled goods agreement should have listed the items correctly which should include make, model, serial number etc - the remote controls must be listed as separate items unless physically attached to the TVs. If you say you owed £1500 then realistically he needed to seize items worth approx £10k or more. 2 second hand TVs do not fit this.

You mention they went straight to Stage Two during this visit. If he had asked and you had not been able to pay immediately then providing he had given an opportunity for you to try and resolve it then moving to Stage Two is permissible. Have you asked for a breakdown of the Fees charged. If you do not agree with them and cannot reach an amicable resolution then the correct course of action is to apply for a Detailed Assessment, but be warned if it goes against you then you may become liable for the costs of this which will likely be over £1k.

[plshelp!]

There are a few things you need to be aware of.

You say he came in through a closed door that you had refused him entry, He has done nothing wrong in his actions as he is permitted to gain entry via normal means which in this case was an unlocked door - he cannot be classed as a trespasser. I agree it was wrong of him to use items provided for a child as a bargaining tool. After all he may only seize goods belonging to the debtor and these were plainly not.

When he seized the TVs did he also seize the remote controls for them - any controlled goods agreement should have listed the items correctly which should include make, model, serial number etc - the remote controls must be listed as separate items unless physically attached to the TVs. If you say you owed £1500 then realistically he needed to seize items worth approx £10k or more. 2 second hand TVs do not fit this.

You mention they went straight to Stage Two during this visit. If he had asked and you had not been able to pay immediately then providing he had given an opportunity for you to try and resolve it then moving to Stage Two is permissible. Have you asked for a breakdown of the Fees charged. If you do not agree with them and cannot reach an amicable resolution then the correct course of action is to apply for a Detailed Assessment, but be warned if it goes against you then you may become liable for the costs of this which will likely be over £1k.

Hi Ploddertom, the entry is not the main argument, originally it was always the writ of control as it just says the brand nothing else, so if your saying its permissible to move to stage 2, how does that fit with the law, is there a regulation i have missed ?

'where the enforcement agent and the debtor enter into a controlled goods agreement, the first enforcement stage, which comprises all activities relating to enforcement from the first attendance at the premises in relation to the instructions until the agreement is completed or breached;

(c)the second enforcement stage, which comprises—

(i)where the enforcement agent and the debtor do not enter into a controlled goods agreement, all activities relating to enforcement from the first attendance at the premises in relation to the instructions up to but not including the commencement of the sale or disposal stage;

(ii)where the enforcement agent and the debtor enter into a controlled goods agreement but the debtor breaches that agreement, all activities relating to enforcement from the time at which the debtor breaches the agreement up to but not including the commencement of the sale or disposal stage;'

[ploddertom]

*so if your saying its permissible to move to stage 2, how does that fit with the law, is there a regulation i have missed ?

You haven't missed anything at all. This all boils down to timings. If when the initial knock on the doort had come you had said something like "yes I know I will pay it now" & do so then there can be no 2nd Stage but if the argument goes on without payment then they can move to the 2nd Stage. In the case of at least 1 company then it is known they do not even send a Notice of Enforcement out & when they do visit they front load with 1st Stage, 2nd Stage & Sale Fee. I agree it needs sorting and only by highlighting issues will it possibly get sorted, it can be fraught with difficulties as you are finding out.

[plshelp!]

So it does not boil down to the law then ? The regs are not vague, very clear, controlled goods agreement stage 1. Nothing to debate there, especially at court

[ploddertom]

The person you need to speak to for a very informed view is John Kruse https://johntkruse.wordpress.com/