another notice to dismiss

[swantop]

Help required please 6 years ago i filed claim for return of* rent monies given to a landlord, Due to his bankruptcy and not knowing he was i was unable to make a claim with the insolvency company and had to wait until he was released from it, last year i was able to reapply with the courts so with the original amount plus interest has turned into a considerable amount i filed to land registery for an intrim charging order which was granted* i followed all that was asked and served notice,but landlord contested this saying he had no idea who we were and wanted proof that he owed this money and the juage was asking why we took so long in applying, we provided this information to the courts and the landlord. We went to court with all documents and the landlord failed to show up.
The judge read our documents and as landlord had not attended which was stipulated on the hearing notice that he do and defend his greivence, we were granted the order and our claim was placed on the registry as final, the judge assured us that this was her decison and final, and that we will now have to wait for the property to be sold,
she also said that the courts decision was final she said this a couple of times. now all this from start to finish has now been read by 4 Judges, albeit that landlord has refused to pay and or contested the judgments dispite overwhelming evedence that he indeed does owe this money have agreed
So why has he been allowed to lodge another notice to dismiss claiming that he didn't receive any letters from us or the courts telling him to attend also claiming he knows nothing about our greivence which is an odd thing to say seeing that he has contested it from day one and to also say its not his signature on the rent book which matches perfectly with his latest application to dismiss* *He paid a £100 for this application any help as to a way forward would be greatly appreciated* **

[luxardo]

He owed you money, you failed to make a claim against him, then he went bankrupt ?
So you made a claim against him after he was discharged and it was granted !!!!!!! ??????
Or you already had a CCJ granted and then he went bankrupt ?
Either way I'm surprised you got the charging order at all if he had been declared bankrupt after he owed you the money.
Are you sure he is not applying to set aside the order on the grounds that he went bankrupt ??
Was the judge who granted the charging order aware of his bankruptcy ?

[swantop]

yes the judge was aware of his bankruptcy all of them were, he has now been released from his bankruptcy that is why we were able to proceed with the charging order we were told by the courts when first applying 6 years ago that we were unable to proceed until he was out of it because one or more companies had a leagal charge in place he sold a property to repay these debts we were granted the ccj in 2014 he was already in bankrupcy but didnt tell insolvency that he was still renting property or us when we gave him this money he insisted on cash only i think his bank account had been frozen at the time as i say we were totally unaware of this at the time it was only when we applied for housing benefits we were informed and he told us to leave the property immediatley

[luxardo]

So he was renting you a house which technically he didn't own anymore as he had been declared bankrupt and all his assets were seized ?

You can't obtain a CCJ against an undischarged bankrupt, you will simply be added to his list of creditors if you try. So he must have been discharged from bankruptcy in 2014 when you obtained the CCJ. So why did you wait until you wait until now, almost 6 years later, to apply for a charging order ?

I also don't know how he can still own the property you now have a charge on if he was made bankrupt.

There are several ways he could keep it, maybe he repaid all his creditors from the sale of other property and got discharged.
Or if it his main home and he owns it outright or is paying the mortgage the insolvency company may have a charge over it and will take any equity if he sells it.

There is a lot I don't understand about this case but the answer to your immediate problem is simple.

I think you are a bit confused as to what the judge meant by "final". It doesn't mean final, finished, over, can never be appealed, that's it, the end etc ..
It just means it is a final order that has been granted as opposed to an interim order, which is temporary until the case is decided.
Think of it in terms of a prison sentence. An interim order is similar to being held in custody until you are tried and a final order is like being sentenced to custody.

It's all irrelevant anyway, you have a CCJ against him enforced with a charging order.
To get the charge set aside he would have to prove he did not receive the application to apply it. He can't claim he doesn't owe you the money without having the CCJ set aside first.
Even if he is successful you can immediately apply for another charging order served at the address he gives the court so he can't deny receiving it.
I seriously doubt he will be successful in having the charge removed unless he pays you first as the court will rule he has no reasonable defence against the application so it would have been granted anyway if he had turned up.

[swantop]

(So he was renting you a house which technically he didn't own anymore as he had been declared bankrupt and all his assets were seized ?) correct and yes he does own his current house outright (as he had a few houses that was the one we attempted to put the charge on, which through land resistry i found he paid cash for) and yes we were put on the list, but as he was well into his bankruptcy which incidently i only found out about through the Gazette pages, we were out of time to claim. He came out of his bankruptcy in 2017 and YES it was a minefield we were sent insolvency details almost 200 pages (the winding up) saying that a property of considerable worth was sold to pay for his release even to pay for their services which were breathtaking!!! and as we knew he was still able to some how keep hold of his assets and money we carried on regardless to get our money back

Luxardo Sir/Madam you are a gem!! your last paragraph answered my question perfectly I am sorry if i went about asking in a longwinded way But we got there in the end and i thank you for that.oh and yes i did think that a "final order" was just that as i think most would who dont really understand the law regarding these matters thank goodness you do, regards x

One more question please, when we go back to court can he be forced to repay this money by them or is there any thing we can say or do that will force his hand*

[luxardo]

He must have sold property and paid off all his debts to avoid losing everything. This is why he wasn't automatically discharged after 12 months.
I'm still really surprised you obtained a CCJ in 2014 when he was still in bankruptcy. Are you sure of this date because it's not legally possible. Are you sure you got the CCJ in 2014 or was it 2017 ?

[swantop]

We got this ccj in 2013 he was declared bankrupt in 2014 we applied for charging order at the end of 2014 (lst one) the application was rejected on the grounds of him being bankrupt and having one or more charges in place ie as you thought previously the insolvency people and 2 others were on the entry (I did not know this until i reread the landregisty entry) i then went on the Gazette pages,

We wrote to insolvency people asking to be place on the list of creditors and was told the claims list was now closed we thought at the time well thats it lost our money. we then received this winding up and his discharge schedule (and something was mentioned about a BRO) showing he did indeed sell a property and as he has quite a few properties this one was the only one debt free so we pursued it again
i checked on land registry before applying for the order just to make sure no one else was on the entry it was clear, this was in 2017/18 we got the charging order in 2019 just making the 6 year deadline by 2 months and thats the reason why we couldnt do anything for so long. sending baliffs would have been futile also.

[luxardo]

In answer to your question about forcing him to repay, the answer is - only by the usual enforcement methods using high court enforcement agents. You can't force him to sell the property but if he does sell you get paid.

However, this is a complicated case and without knowing a lot more and seeing the papers I am unable to understand it fully other than to say it is highly unusual for a CCJ registered prior to bankruptcy to not be included in the bankruptcy.
I am amazed the CCJ is still valid and you are able to enforce it.

A BRO means he has been a very naughty boy and his bankruptcy is a result of fraud or something else dishonest or illegal. That's why he got a discharge schedule instead of automatically being discharged from bankruptcy after 12 months as normal. A BRO also bans him from being a company director and obtaining credit for the period the court decides (and a lot more).
It's possible that is why the CCJ is still in force as it has been considered a secured debt rather than an unsecured one but I'm just guessing here because as I say this is a complicated case.