Defendant Form N181 help?!

[DS2106]

Hi guys,

I am new to all of this so any advice/direction would be much appreciated.

I received a claim from a family member requesting that I pay back £20,000 that was gifted. The said family member has since had a fall out with me and is claiming the money was given as a loan.

I have already filed a defence defence to this which was sent to the court. I have now received a Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Fast Track and am required to complete the form N181 directions questionnaire. I feel a little bit out of my depth and need some guidance please.

As I said anything would be gratefully appreciated.

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Hey xx Sorry to hear things have turned sour in your relationship with your family member. The N181 looks more complicated than it actually is, it sounds like the claim and defence are quite straightforward ( he says/she says?)

If you can post ( redacted ) the claim particulars and the defence, and whether there are any documents ( inc texts etc ) that say anything about repayment or being a gift etc - any witnesses ? we should be able to give a bit of guidance whether you need add anything to standard directions when submitting the directions questionnaire.

[DS2106]

Thank you so much for your quick reply. I'm hoping so, the form makes it sound really quite complex!

---Particulars of Claim---

"My wife and I put £20,000 into my ******** account by bank transfer. It was to be used by my wife as and when she enters respite care whilst I take a fortnights rest. The money was to pay the care home fees and any other things she may need during her stay. My wife loaned him £15,000 and me £5,000. My ******** now claims this money was a gift, not true,. He promises to pay us back. He ignores all of my texts and my wife's calls asking for our money. "

------------------

I fully appreciate how this may come across to some, unfortunately this is not the truth which has caused me more distress. as far as I am aware there are no supporting documents to support the claim and I certainly haven't sent any texts confirming the money is to be paid back etc.

---Defence (I disputed the full claim) ----

I deny the claim made against me by my ****** for the sum of £20,000. This was a gift given to me by bank transfer. I received £15,000 from my ****** account on 30^th April 2018 and £5,000 from my ****** account on 11^th May 2018. There was no verbal or written communication to say that this sum of money was a loan or was required to be paid back. I was told by both my ****** and ****** that this money was a gift for me to put into an ISA for myself.

Until recently, I was the only family member other than my ****** who has any contact with my ******. He has no contact with any other members of our family, and hasn't for a lot of years. Because of this, he and my ****** both made wills leaving everything they have to myself. I was told by my ****** “You may as well have our money now as you will get it when we die”, he has told me this on numerous occasions.

Over the last few years my ****** has often took holidays which has left myself being the only person able to assist with the care of my ******, This has involved me living at their home whilst my ****** has been on holiday. Unfortunately as my ****** health deteriorated she required around the clock care which is why it was decided for her to go into respite care whilst my ****** is away on holiday. I work full time so It wasn't always possible for me to be there to assist when my ****** required it. On the occasions my ****** has been in respite care, all of the fees have been paid in cash which I took from my ****** home under his instruction, he has never transferred me any money to assist in the payment of fees for my ****** care. The sum of money that my ****** is claiming was put in my account on the dates given, since those date my ****** has been in respite a few times times and it has all been paid in cash as explained with no mention of the money given to me.

Due to a break down of relations between my ****** and my fiancée, and the news that we are soon to have a baby together my ****** relationship with me has also broken down. My ****** has told me that he does not wish for my fiancée to receive or benefit from the £20,000 or any inheritance that I was due to receive in their will and this is the reason that he is now requested the £20,000 back. My ****** has told me that he would rather burn his money than leave it in a will to any of his family, including myself. I also have a letter written by my ****** which was posted through my letter box. The letter advises that him and my ****** will be changing their will. It also states “We are going to burn our money, so the free loaders cant get their hands on it”.

Since the break down of relationship my ****** has made numerous suggestions in relation to the money which he gave to me. He has asked me to put it in a trust fund for our baby, I also have a text message from him to confirm this which I have attached (Attachment 1).

My ****** claims that he transferred me £20,000 to pay for my ****** respite whilst he is on holiday between dates ****** and ******. The first I am aware of this holiday is when I received the claim documentation in the post.

This is not the only gift my ****** has asked for me to return to him. He posted a note through my letter box whilst I was on holiday in July requesting that I return my ****** wedding ring which she gave to me and a gold chain which was given to me as a gift by them on my 18^th Birthday, I am now 34 years of age. I have attached a copy of the note which was posted through my letter box regarding the ring and the chain (Attachment 2).

On occasions, in front of numerous people at social events my ****** has often boasted about how much money he has given me, I do have witness to this if required.

I believe that the only reason my ****** is asking for this money back is because of the recent news of me and my fiancée having a baby together. I believe had this not happened our relationship would still be fine and he would not be making this application.
-------

Again thanks for replying and any advice would be much appreciated. To be honest I do not know where to start with the directions questionnaire, there seems to be a push to try and resolve it ourselves but I am no longer on speaking terms with the claimant so it makes it quite difficult.

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Oh goodness. Stressful all round xxxx

Ok.

The claim isnt great and doesn't make a lot of sense. The defence replies to it but is a little unclear how the respite care was actually paid for and where from so I think when/if you come to witness statements stage you'll want to get away from the emotional side and get to facts and dates. Witness statements will be ordered once the claim has been allocated to your local court.

It'll be more like ...

1:On DATE the claimant, Mr xxxxxx, my xxxxxx, offered to give me xxxxxx to put in an ISA for the purpose of xxxxxx.

2:The claimant stated that " about the will etc "

3:The claimant suggested the amount of £20,000 as that was the maximum amount that could be invested into an ISA.

4:On DATE the claimant made a payment to my personal bank account by bank transfer ( Exhibit A - bank statement )

but don't worry about that for the moment, it's just to show how things should be set out to make the case so it's easy for a judge to understand - anyway let's get this directions questionnaire sorted.

so...

A - settlement - it is of course best to say yes and try to mediate however with the complete breakdown of the relationship and the completely opposing positions it doesn't seem appropriate. So tick No to 1 & 2 and in 3 - 'Due to a complete breakdown in the relationship between the Claimant and Defendant and each holding entirely opposing positions it is not felt that a stay would be of assistance in the case'

B - leave 1 blank
2- your local county court ( or your parents if different and if accessibility may be an issue - doesn't hurt to put that in reasons - you can check the courts here https://courttribunalfinder.service....s&spoe=nearest )

C - tick yes but put in the box ' The Defendant did not receive any pre action communication from the claimant '

D1 - Applications - No
D2 - leave blank ( for now I want to check whether because this is a single question ' was the money a gift or a loan? ' case it might go in small claims - both parties are litigants in person ( the claimant obviously isn't using s solicitor ( at least so far )) and Costs aren't an issue at the moment ( in small claims you could only get Costs for day off work to attend hearing, parking, travel etc )
D3 - leave blank
D4 - write 'draft directions attached'
leave next bit blank

E - say No to experts

F - witnesses - put yourself, possibly your fiancé if she was witness to any of the original conversation about gifting the money to you, and the person you mention in the defence ( only if they are prepared to give a witness statement and attend the hearing ). Your mother would be an obvious witness but that could cause major stress on her so unlikely to be wise.

G - less than 1 day and put 4 hrs as an estimate.
Then any dates of holiday and probably two weeks around your fiancés due date .

H - leave blank

I - tick No to future applications
leave case management blank

then just sign date etc


Then we need to attach standard directions draft to it, I'll come back in the morning on that for you ...

... text messages - could anything alleged to have been sent by the claimant have been sent to an old phone number ?

anything at all in texts from when the money was given - email / text with bank details or anything like that? ( just thinking what disclosure there might be )

from your side you have isa statement, bank statement showing payment in , the note put through the door you mention - potentially invoices / receipts / payments made for the respite care ( just in case it is required ) Any conversations had about paying for respite care, the money gift, requests for other previous gifts to be returned etc( again better to have too much then it can be cut down)

The judge will have seen this kind of case many times before sadly so don't worry. There's a few similar cases on here too where family have fallen out and previous gifts are suddenly claimed as loans and sued for. I'll see if I can find some links and cases in the morning as well.

Havent been able to read the attachment as yet ( won't open on my tablet so will have to get it on pc tmw) so I'll check that in the morning too- but you can make a start at least on the n181 if you can't sleep.

[DS2106]

This is brilliant, thank you. I hope I haven’t ruined anything with the defence already sent. He fell out with me before the holiday so there was no plan for respite as far as I was aware. I didn’t even know about the holiday so there weren’t any plans to pay for the respite. The only thing I can mention are payments made previously when respite has been arranged.

Going to to make a start on the N181 now. Thanks

[Amethyst]

No it's fine, it's a bit of a rant but nothing terrible in there and we can bring things together with witness statements. When he's written his claim he's realised he needs to say why he gave you the money.... it's confused as he says it was a loan to be repaid and then says it was given to you for his wife to use to pay for respite care. Even so £20k for a fortnight seems a lot. You could look at how much respite care usually costs. And if it was money intended for her to use "

any other things she may need during her stay."

then why transfer it to you in the first place when £15k of it was sent to you by her ?. Also, why transfer this £20k to you so far before this instance of respite care when there was other respite inbetween the money being transfered and this last occasion he is claiming for.

Additionally he says he only sent £5k and his wife £15k. Presumably your mum isn't a joint claimant, so his claim can really only be for the £5k he loaned.

Hmmm.... that might actually give an additional reason to push it to small claims ( thinking out loud really here btw )

Also, do you still have the £20k in the ISA ?

And forgot to say, congratulations on the impending arrival xxx

Btw, The claim has cost him £1000 to issue, and will cost him a further £545 in hearing fees.

[DS2106]

Yes I’d not thought about that, the claim does confuse itself. I know the fees are £750 per week from previous times she has stayed so like you said it’s very excessive.

Yes you you are right, he is only claiming £5,000 it’s my nan who transferred the £15,000 and there’s no claim for her. He is listed as the only claimant.

Yes still I’ll have the money in the ISA where it was intended for in the first place. Untouched.

Thanks for the congratulations, baby is due in two and half weeks so it’s all getting very real now. It’s almost like it’s been timed to come at this very exciting time to try and dampen the excitement.

If I was to lose would that be costs paid for by me?

[DS2106]

Hi Amethyst,

Hope you’ve had a great weekend.

Did you have a look into the directions draft. Not sure quite what format they should be in. Thank you

[DS2106]

Amethyst not sure if I’m doing this wrong or if you can no longer see the thread.

[Amethyst]

Hi, yes if you lost it is likely you would have to pay the other sides costs. Apologies for missing your replies xx

This is just the basic 'template' for draft directions for fast track which can be amended.

Likely we want to write to the claimant with a part 18 request asking some questions to solidify your case and defence - then it can be brought together with witness statement later. I'll come back in the morning properly xx

In the Northampton CCBC County Court

Claim Number xxxxx
YOUR NAME
Claimant
v
THEIR NAME
Defendant
-------------------
DRAFT DIRECTIONS
----------------------

On ______________________ 2016 District Judge _________________ sitting at Northampton (CCBC) County Court, 4th Floor, St Katharines House, 21-27 St Katharines Street, Northampton NN1 2LH

Ordered that;

1: The claim is allocated to the Fast Track.

2: Disclosure of Documents will be dealt with as follows

a) By _______________ on ___________________ both parties must give each other standard disclosure of documents lists

b) By ______________ on ____________________ any request to inspect the original of, or to provide a copy of, a disclosable document must be made.

c) Any such request, unless objected to, must be complied with within 14 days of the request.

4. Evidence of fact will be dealt with as follows;

a) By ________ on ______________ both parties must serve on each other copies of the signed statements of themselves along with any evidence on which they intend to rely.

5. No permission is given for expert evidence.

6. The claimant shall lodge an indexed bundle of documents contained in a ring binder and with each page clearly numbered, and a case summary of no more than 250 words, at the court not more than 7 days and not less than 3 days before the start of the trial.

[Amethyst]

Just having a think on questions for a part 18 request...

The date and account holders name for the bank transfer of £5000 being made into the Defendant's account ( xx-xx-xx - xxxxxxx )

The date and account holders name for the bank transfer of £15000 being made into the Defendant's account ( xx-xx-xx - xxxxxxx )

Please give the dates on which Mrs xxxxxxx required respite care
Please provide the invoice amount from the care home for that period.
Did Mrs xxxx require any respite care between the date given in response to question 1 & 2 and the date of the respite care the transfer was allegedly to pay for. How was that respite care paid for?
Was the money transferred a loan, a gift, or to be used by the Defendant to pay for Mrs xxxxxxxxx respite care ?
Could you give the reason why, if the money was for the use of Mrs xxxxx to purchase things "she may need during her stay", she transferred the sum to the Defendant rather than use her own money in her own account ?
Is Mrs xxxxx intending to join herself to the claim as 2nd Claimant ?
If the money was intended as a loan, please detail the agreement as regards repayment of such.

"

My wife and I put £20,000 into my ******** account by bank transfer. It was to be used by my wife as and when she enters respite care whilst I take a fortnights rest. The money was to pay the care home fees and any other things she may need during her stay. My wife loaned him £15,000 and me £5,000. My ******** now claims this money was a gift, not true,. He promises to pay us back. He ignores all of my texts and my wife's calls asking for our money. "

[DS2106]

Amethyst Thanks so much for your reply.

Sorry if I’m being a bit (a lot) dim here, I’m not really sure what a part 18 request is, is that the information I need to put on the draft directions? Do I send this back a long with the directions questionnaire or directly to the claimant.

[Amethyst]

The part 18 request is separate - really I'm just thinking on what possible documents could be disclosed - from your side there's only really going to be your bank statement showing the payment in and the ISA account opening and the money being transferred in to that. Potentially any emails/texts you had received/sent relating to it, maybe instructions to pay respite in between times by using cash from his house etc....

It may be you want to amend your defence ( pointing out the claimant only gave you £5k etc ) but the Part 18 request should be a route to doing that if needed at least if we do it properly show him you aren't going to be walked over and that he is going to have to back up his claim.

But just concentrate on the n181 for now - standard directions should be fine ( as per the example with amended dates ) - the court will know they are standard directions and issue their own in any case, and you've already explained communication issues as to why the directions are not agreed. The N181 and draft directions goes to the court and a copy goes to the Claimant.

Hopefully the claimant is just trying to intimidate by bringing this claim - and simply attempting to cause you stress at an already stressful time - and when he sees it has failed and is actually serious and going to court, and is faced with the hearing fee to pay as well he might back off .... don't let it overshadow other things - you never know he may have a change of heart once baby arrives ( stranger things have happened )

[DS2106]

Amethyst Thanks.

Mate the draft directions required to be sent back with the N181, I just really can’t get my head around them. I don’t understand the judge/court/date but as I don’t have that information yet.

Im just wanting to get it sent off and out of the way now and can’t seem to get my head around it, one minute I understand it and the next I’m lost in it. Earlier in the thread you mentioned about suggesting small claims under section D. Would you still make this suggestion?

[DS2106]

Amethyst Hi again, Hope you are well. Things are still progressing. I have just completed a list of disclosure documents and the next step for me is witness statements. Is there any advice for the content/structure? Or a template available? I’ve had a good search on here but can’t find anything. Thank you.