Council tax following death 2nd property

[Starbuck79]

My mother passed away a few weeks ago following a long illness. I am an executor of her estate. She owned a second property which a relative lived in for some time previously. That property has now been empty, as of last week, for two years and consequently is now subject to the long term levy for council tax of 100%, effectively doubling the council tax on the property, as I found out yesterday morning when an altered bill for the council tax for the year came through the post. My mother had been trying to sell the property for some time prior to her death. But despite various buyers, none of the sales have yet completed, although the property is still currently mid-sale, obviously this can't complete until probate has been granted

I'm trying to get some clarification of the situation. As I understood it, according to the government website, when a person dies, if you are then selling an empty property on their behalf, you only pay council tax 6 months after probate has been granted. It doesn't specify anything about second properties being under a different set of circumstances. Am I correct in assuming that I shouldn't be having to pay council tax out of her estate (which I won't have access to until after probate has been granted)? Or is the law different for second properties? I have been scouring the internet since yesterday morning and I can't find any guidance on any similar cases.

I shall obviously be ringing the council concerned to try and understand what is going on and I shall speak to the solicitors who are handling the probate on our behalf, but I'd like to know a bit of the legal ground here and get some advice as this has been bugging me since the bill arrived yesterday morning. Thanks in advance.

[lgfa92]

O presume this is England ?

That property has now been empty, as of last week, for two years and consequently is now subject to the long term levy for council tax of 100%

I see this issue from clients quite often (probably one of the most common disputes/queries) - is the property substantially unfurnished ?

The Class F exemption may apply to a second property, depending on the circumstances. It is common for local authorities not to understand this (council tax legislation can be a very technical area, at times),

[Starbuck79]

Yes, this is in England.

The property is substantially unfurnished. It has been for at least a year. I will have to check but I don’t think it’s been unfurnished for two years. The relative moved out then the furniture went later, I think.

[lgfa92]

I think you probably have a arguable point that could be made with the council in respect of the premium and another one for the Class F - the reason you won't find much on the internet is because it can be a technical area for argument but one that few of us cover. There is also a recent tribunal case decision which may become relevant (depending on whether or not the council try and argue the case).

[Starbuck79]

Well, I spoke to the council yesterday and queried it under the class F exemption. They said they needed to have a more detailed look at it and would call me back in 5. Still waiting for the call :-) lets see what today brings.

[Starbuck79]

So, have just spoken to the council and after referring it up the chain a bit, they are saying he long term empty overrides the class F exemption and the account has to be paid. Hmmm.

[lgfa92]

And this is the technical side of it (sometimes it can be fun trying to explain it as few of the council staff tend to have any actual experience in the legislation side, hence the issues). I would argue that they are incorrect on the basis of a misinterpretation of legislation.

One does not override the other, it is not that simple, as happens with much of the legislation.

The premium simply provides that the amount of council tax due can be increased by up to 100%. There is a case where specific discounts cannot apply where the premium is in place however I would argue that they are missing a few specific points in their determination. Depending on which way specifically it is argued then you are, in effect, reduced to applying an increase to a nil amount, i.e where an exemption applies. (I'm sure that they can see x amount of nil would still nil).

[Starbuck79]

Thank you for your advice on this. What is the specific case where the exemption cannot apply? Also is it possible to view notes from the tribunal you mentioned previously?

I need to write to the council to get explain the position as I see it. I’d liked to be armed with as much as I can be.

[Starbuck79]

And apologies for some of the bad spelling and grammar on this thread. Autocorrect is not always helpful.

[lgfa92]

The council will likely stick to their argument so to challenge it yourself you need to understand the way the exemption and premium work. To do so you need to read and understand the legislation, there's no other way around it. Not being flippant but council tax legislation is a complete and utter mess of interlinked legislation, I've worked with it for nearly 2 decades and there's still bits I have to sit and think about.

Based on what you have added the tribunal decision is not relevant and so would simply confuse the issue.

[Starbuck79]

The solicitor handling probate for me is writing to them to get clarification. They also asked me to write to them. I shall proceed with the arguing points you’ve outlined above.

I'm already starting to see how much of a minefield this is. Because why would anyone want to make it easy for people to read through and understand legislation. :-)

i do have some time free and feel quite determined at the moment to argue. So any pointers in where to look (websites/links etc.) would be gratefully received. Thank you for your help with this.

[lgfa92]

There are bits and pieces on the internet (I can't point you to some directly as I don't want to advertise the site it's on) which you can find using google but, as with most law fields, it's the interpretation of the legislation and applying it to the situation that is the key and that is the skill set that solicitors etc sell so information, in some cases, can be hard to independently locate.

The thing I would always advise caution with is using your solicitor but then looking for the information yourself. If you're paying them to deal with it then it falls within their remit, rather than you doing the research - it is however a whole area of law in itself (of which i know of only 2or3 of us who work in it as their main role) and you need to be confident that you do use a solicitor who understands what they are doing (which he may or may not, depending on his skills). A probate solicitor is probably great at that but poor in criminal law and vice versa, for example, so make sure that the actual points at hand are properly dealt with.

[Starbuck79]

It’s certainly tricky to navigate around all of this. I’ve been looking at legislation and amendments. Wowsers!

When can’t a property that is a second property qualify for a class F exemption?