Would you find this offensive ?

[o0hex0o]

Below is an extract form an email sent by a Barrister(np), name replaced with xxxx. i found the line in bold ( i have made it bold to highlight it for the forum ) this highly offensive and responded in an unprofessionally way.

What are you thoughts on this ? how would you interpret the section ? would you be offended ?


"our current claim is an intention to be vexatious, following the County Court issued judgement against you in a separate matter you raised against the xxxx.If my suspicion is correct, you might perhaps take additional enjoyment in knowing that the distress and inconvenience you are causing the xxxx’s is coming at a time when Mrs xxxx is undergoing radiotherapy treatment for cancer."

[Amethyst]

It seems to be saying that you have made a vexatious claim against someone, because they obtained a judgment against you, and they believe you are only bringing the claim to cause distress and inconvenience - and they are facetiously 'letting you know' about the current health issues of the person you are claiming against.... I assume this is from a Solicitor/Barrister acting for the other side rather than your own solicitor/barrister and the first word in the quote should be 'Your' ?

Not the best way to deal with matters, terrible wording, and if your claim is genuine and valid you might well be offended - Is your claim a vexatious attempt to upset the other party or a genuine claim ? And is it directly related to the judgment the other side previously obtained against you? ( if so you might risk being struck out ) … basically how offended you can be by the email depends on how offensive your claim against his client is... which we have absolutely no idea on as yet. Also, has his client instructed him to inform you of her health issues ?

[charitynjw]

Have you checked to see if said barrister exists?

[o0hex0o]

So a little more background.
I own a semi detached 2 bed property with a garage at the side, my daughter , her partner and 2 kids live there. The semi detached property at the other side, who we are having the issue with, have had a full extension built around 7 years ago this is prior to me purchasing the property.
To facilitate their extension they removed the garage, front garden walls and rear fence , to allow access for plant machinery etc , and later rebuilt the garage fence and wall .
The building plans show that there is a walkway at the side of their extension 0.5m from there gable end wall, this is also noted in the planning permission that the wall is 0.5m from the boundary .

For a number of reasons the rear fence collapsed, my view was this was because of a significant wood pile that was leaned up against the fence, long story short I replaced it after there refusal to contribute and took them to the small claims court , and lost.

During the time the time I was requesting payment and eventual using MCOL and the court , around 6 months, my daughter had another baby. So now there are 2 adults and 2 children in a 2 bed house and we started to explore the options to extend the property.

Part of this activity one of the builders highlighted that according to the neighbours plans there was 0.5m from the gable end wall to the boundary, but on measuring it there was over 1 meter. The builders view was that 0.5m would make a significant difference to any extension.

So I sent them a letter laying out the evidence of their drawings, planning submission and the planning approval showing that the walk way is 0.5m and I would be erecting a new fence on the boundary.

I should also point out that this side walk way is the only access to the rear garden of the neighbours property.

After a few letter exchanges I then received a letter from “ a good family friend” with the letter signed off with “barrister (non practicing)”

So far every argument he has put forward I have been able to successfully counter, in effect I am not claiming anything only working off their drawings ,planning permission etc . So now he is going for vexatious claim as an approach.

Through out the exchanges he has been condescending, difficult, changed his position a number of times and in this last email suggest I would take pleasure in some one having cancer. This is to close to the bone for me as I lost my father in February to cancer and 5 immediate family members in the last 2 years to cancer.

[o0hex0o]

Have you checked to see if said barrister exists?

just checked he is not listed but he always signs off "Barrister (non-practising*)" and the BSB search is for practising barrister.
he has the following on his site :-

xxxx xxxx is a non-practising barrister. He holds the degree of barrister, but does not have a practising certificate. This limits the legal work he is permitted to carry out. He cannot appear as a barrister in court or conduct litigation or immigration work as a barrister. He is not fully regulated by the Bar Standards Board, although they can consider a complaint against him.

now i am unsure !

[swiss_toni]

Perhaps 'barista' is more appropriate then?

Here is a rusty but apparently up to date, and ultimately useful site that put me off getting legal with next door when they let their fence deteriorate and refused to replace it citing money problems (usual story of boomers living in poorly maintained but still somehow fetching 400k easily house).

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/b...frontpage.html

I simply put up a new fence on our side that does not alter the boundary at all, and have slowly watched their fence rot into their garden, not mine

The whole fence was cheaper I imagine than the cheapest legal action, and was of the height, style and colour I wanted.

I appreciate that your problem is slightly different, but at the end of the day, do you want to live next door to people like that?

I'm sure someone more in the know will give you some advice soon.

[Amethyst]

Okay. So the issues aren't related, other than it relates to the boundary between the properties.
You replaced a fence panel and tried to obtain the costs of such from your neighbour but the court found in their favour. Do you know the reasons for that judgment?
And in essence now you are trying to claim half of the space between your properties, and put a fence along that boundary, so that you can add 50cm to your potential extension? The only evidence you have that that 50cm is part of your land is their planning permission application ? Is there currently a fence/wall between the properties that you want to move their way a bit or is there nothing there at the moment ? If there is a fence - how long has it been there ?

I'll tag des8 on this as he knows boundary stuff xx

[o0hex0o]

Okay. So the issues aren't related, other than it relates to the boundary between the properties.
You replaced a fence panel and tried to obtain the costs of such from your neighbour but the court found in their favour. Do you know the reasons for that judgment?
And in essence now you are trying to claim half of the space between your properties, and put a fence along that boundary, so that you can add 50cm to your potential extension? The only evidence you have that that 50cm is part of your land is their planning permission application ? Is there currently a fence/wall between the properties that you want to move their way a bit or is there nothing there at the moment ? If there is a fence - how long has it been there ?

I'll tag des8 on this as he knows boundary stuff xx

the main reason for the judgment was that i waited 6 months before replacing the fence and they claimed that they had repaid the fence to a reasonable standard when it broke. It took 6 months as they had agreed to move the wood and then replace the fence, they move the wood over 3 months ( there was a lot of it ! ) then never replaced the fence. I chased them to do it then said I would get it done and bill them hence the 6 months. The magistrate view was that if it had lasted 6 months then it was ok and I was looking for betterment of the fence. Also as it was to the left of the property it was my fence which I agreed with.

There is currently a fence in place to the rear the wall at the front has been removed as you could not get a car on the drive and open the passenger door

I should also add that there is a garage wall that makes up part of the fence line , our garage, we want to remove this to start the extension and need a fence to contain the dog and kids

[charitynjw]

Also as it was to the left of the property it was my fence which I agreed with.

AfaIk, not so.
The deeds may show who is responsible for boundary fences, usually indicated by a small 'T' next to the fence/wall etc.
Failing that, the Party Wall Act 1996 is probably relevant. (Alongside precedent cases which predated it.)

[o0hex0o]

AfaIk, not so.
The deeds may show who is responsible for boundary fences, usually indicated by a small 'T' next to the fence/wall etc.
Failing that, the Party Wall Act 1996 is probably relevant. (Alongside precedent cases which predated it.)

It looks as though fence is marked on my deed’s as me owning it.

[des8]

The fence line is not necessarily the boundary line.
Fences get moved over the years for all sorts of reasons and the deeds only show an approximation of boundary lines.

The fact they show on planning application etc a 0.5m gap likewise is not proof of where the boundary lies.

I don't think you have you initiated a court claim over this matter already, and I would certainly counsel against doing so, as it has all the hallmarks of becoming quite nasty and expensive.
At the end, no matter the result, your daughter will be living next door to these neighbours.
Expensive because you will probably be paying to have the boundaries determined
Some basic advice here: https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

Regarding your original question, I would not be offended but I would regard the sender as crass.

[o0hex0o]

The fence line is not necessarily the boundary line.
Fences get moved over the years for all sorts of reasons and the deeds only show an approximation of boundary lines.

The fact they show on planning application etc a 0.5m gap likewise is not proof of where the boundary lies.

I don't think you have you initiated a court claim over this matter already, and I would certainly counsel against doing so, as it has all the hallmarks of becoming quite nasty and expensive.
At the end, no matter the result, your daughter will be living next door to these neighbours.
Expensive because you will probably be paying to have the boundaries determined
Some basic advice here: https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

Regarding your original question, I would not be offended but I would regard the sender as crass.

Thanks for the response, its very helpful.

Living next door to these neighbours is not an issue, we are quite thick skinned. Moving is not really an option, kids family schools etc. For the cost of the extension they would get a much bigger property than we could get if we sold and put the extension money to it. 3 beds houses rarely come up in the area hence the neighbours doing their extension.

We do have additional photographic evidence that the garage was wider that the one they built, there is also markings on the pavement where the original wall was, their property also is higher than ours and there is a clear 'step' on the ground. Google street view history which goes back to before the extension, not sure if you are aware of street view history ? and you can extrapolate a lot of info from the historic street views.

A simple count of the bricks in the wall from our side wall in a number of pictures, shows the wall has been moved over to our side buy around 0.6m

[des8]

Ok so you have anecdotal support for your claim, and can see why moving is not really am option, but do be aware that land disputes can become very expensive and the outcome of litigation is unpredictable to say the least.
Try ADR perhaps?

[o0hex0o]

I don’t think ADR would be an option unfortunately, the “good family friend’s” qualifications are as follows
BSc LLB(Hons) MSc (Distinction)
MRICS MCIOB MCICES MCIArb
Barrister (non-practising*)

So as you can see he is a Member of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators.
Instead of trying to arbitrate he went straight for vexatious claim and land ownership. It contained fallacious reasoning and a case law reference relating cancelation of a contract before delivery.
I did point this out to him and questioned why case law reference relating cancelation of a contract was relevant. I also sent supporting evidence of my claim.
His response was around Section 62(2) of the Law of Property Act 1925 (“LPA 1925”), and “quoted” a section which he significantly altered from the actual wording of the act. The basic argument was that access to the rear was via the side of the property.

In my response I pointed out the mis-quoted section and corrected the wording. I also provided an image from the mid 60’s showing there was no garage in place on their side of the property but there was a gate hinged off their house. I called out that they were fully aware that the space between the extension and the boundary as thy had had the plans drawn up and it was clear from the planning permission that it was going to be 0.5m if they now have an issue they could not fix their access problem with a land grab.
It went down hill from here with lots of statements about his qualifications and why he “was better qualified to interpret the law” than me.
There were further exchanges around points and claims for the next few weeks. He sent me a mail 2 weeks ago (this has been ongoing for about 3 months) stating that he had now visited the property’s. His approach has now changed to focus on access being required to place a ladder to clean a gable end window and perform maintenance to the gable end.

I think now he has seen the anecdotal evidence on the ground he is trying to save face, he made a lot of claims of what he would be able to do and how he would win as he’s a “Barrister” in front of a lot of people at a kids football club, this is where they know each other from. For him to lose on this would be quite a blow for his ego

So it a tough position for me, I am trying to recover that land so we can get a good size extension, while dealing with someone who has a big ego and made claims with in his social circle that he feels he must now live up to.

To add to the complexity I am also dyslexic, so typing responses can take hours !

[charitynjw]

His approach has now changed to focus on access being required to place a ladder to clean a gable end window and perform maintenance to the gable end.

Imho his approach is tosh. If it should prove necessary, then
https://www.mylawyer.co.uk/law-a-A76...?A76076D34458=