Private PCN Appeal

[Nealg2019]

Hello there, could anyone help me with a private parking appeal I have received?

They had issues me a ticket with a fine of £100 or £60 if paid in 14 days.

I have appealed and they have rejected my appeal. Stating there are clearly marked signs. However the reason for my appeal is I was told the area where I had parked did not belong to the private land which they enforce (it’s next to a flat I have just bought). Also the area in which I parked has no road markings or signs.

I noticed also the the tickets and photos of my car were issues and taken at 1:30am. After the appeal has been rejected they are now sending me a letter increasing the fine of it is not paid.

I have the option to appeal my rejection to IAS but must do so soon and need any advice possible.

Any help at all will be very much appreciated. Thank you

[Nealg2019]

Sorry I forgot to say that on the ticket the issue reason is because I didn’t have a permit.

[ostell]

So what does your lease say, what do the signs say, post up the PCN

[Nealg2019]

Lease doesn’t say anything about parking. My neighbour was also told the same thing that that bit of land was not theirs and they can’t enforce the ticket but I wrote to them to appeal it and it was rejected. I will show you the sign and the ticket issues to me.

[Nealg2019]

Hi Ostell, please see attached photos of the sign which is in another location and the ticket that was issued to me. The sign says ‘Parking Conditions Apply - vehicles fully displaying a valid parking permit within the front windscreen and parked fully in the confines of a fully marked bay.’

As you can see I was parked on the location I was told was not enforceable and there are no road mark or signage in that area.

the area is also not well lit at night and signage is not visible at night and the ticket was issued at 1:30am

thanks for your advice.

[charitynjw]

In your appeal to the parking co, did you say (or infer) who was responsible for parking on that occasion? (Ie by naming the driver.)
If not, do not do so in subsequent communications/appeals.

As things stand, that notice to driver (windscreen ticket) is defective for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4.

If it were me I'd wait for the postal notice to registered keeper before making any decision.

As for an appeal to the *independent* appeals service.........
https://parking-prankster.blogspot.c...-kangaroo.html
(Things have changed a little since PP's blog....but not substantially!)

[Nealg2019]

Thanks you CharityNJW for your help.

I have written and appealed on the 14.05.19 in response to the PCN already and stated that I did not agree to the contract and I was parked on the strip of land I’ve been told is not enforceable with no clearly marked bays and therefore was not going to pay (I guess this is admitting I’m responsible?). Can I still quote that it is defective for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4?

It’s my mothers car but I’m insured on it as a second driver. Their response was sent to my parents address (addressed to myself) and they have said I have 21 days to appeal to the independent appeal service AIS or the fine will increase and court action. The 21 day deadline is this coming to an end this Monday and I would like to appeal the best way possible to get off this ticket as I believe it was issued unfairly.

Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks so much.

[charitynjw]

Thanks you CharityNJW for your help.

I have written and appealed on the 14.05.19 in response to the PCN already and stated that I did not agree to the contract and I was parked on the strip of land I’ve been told is not enforceable with no clearly marked bays and therefore was not going to pay (I guess this is admitting I’m responsible?). Can I still quote that it is defective for the purposes of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4?
Yes you can, as that statement is correct.
However, if the driver has been ID'd, they can abandon PoFA & go after the driver via common law breach of contract.
Unfortunately there's no way of guessing which route they will choose. (They often leave options open.)

It’s my mothers car but I’m insured on it as a second driver. Their response was sent to my parents address (addressed to myself) and they have said I have 21 days to appeal to the independent appeal service AIS or the fine will increase and court action. The 21 day deadline is this coming to an end this Monday and I would like to appeal the best way possible to get off this ticket as I believe it was issued unfairly.
Personally I wouldn't touch IAS with a 10ft bargepole. (That's about 3m in new money!)

Any help would be really appreciated. Thanks so much.

Unfortunately, I can't read the pic of the site sign...it loses definition when zoomed.

[ostell]

Recommendation is NOT to appeal to the IAS, you will lose.

Why was the letter sent to your parents address? Did you give them that address?

What was the date between the alleged breach and the date on the letter to your parents? I'm thinking applied to the DVLA before 28 days.

[Nealg2019]

Hi CharityNJW, thanks for the reply.

I’ve attached a clearer photo of the sign. Is it a breach of contract? I believed and have been told I was parked on land that was not enforceable by them and there are no clearly marked bays? My neighbour is still parking on that strip of land and ignoring the tickets issued to her. (I am not since I have been issued this ticket and as I use my mothers spare car every now and then) If I don’t appeal to the IAS then what else can I do?

Thanks again for your help.

[Nealg2019]

Also I just want to say as you can see from the strip of land I parked on there are none of these signs and no marked bays.
Thanks

[ostell]

The sign could be considered prohibiting in that it only permits parking for permit holders and makes no offer of a contract to park for non permit holders. Here's a bit of text I saved about this:
The signage in the car park is of a “forbidding” nature. It is limited to cars displaying a valid permit only and therefore the terms cannot apply to cars without a permit because the signage does not offer an invitation to park on certain terms. The terms are forbidding. This means that there was never a contractual relationship. I refer you to the following case law: PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016], Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] – In all three of these cases the signage was found to be forbidding and thus only a trespass had occurred and would be a matter for the landowner.

For IPC companies best is to ignore everything from now on until you get a Letter before Claim or an actual court claim form. Just build up your defence so that it is ready just in case.

[Nealg2019]

Ok thanks for your reply. So you think I shouldn’t appeal to IAS and wait for court action? I don’t really want to go to court as I’m worried about the fine escalating. Why is it best to ignore the IAS?

[Nealg2019]

Hi Ostell,

Yes in my initial appeal I gave my name and my parents address as I borrow the spare car at times and I am an insured driver on it but not the registered keeper.

Date of the issued PCN was 28.04.19, the date I sent the appeal was 11.05.19 and they received this on 14.05.19. The date of their response to my parents address was 21.05.19.

They are saying I have 21 days notice to from 21.05.19 to appeal to the IAS.

Im worried I will get a court order or the fine increasing and if I don’t appeal to the IAS I’m assuming this will happen? Do you know what the process is usually?

What do you think is best to do? I’ve only been told the land doesn’t belong to them and don’t have the proof.

Thanks for your help

[Nealg2019]

Hi this letter has arrived saying that if I don’t pay the £100 fine then a debt recovery service will be sent to recover the money. If there is no point appalling to the IAS then maybe I should just pay the fine as I wouldn’t want them turning up at my parents house.