No where to turn - or park!!

[andrewi]

Hello,
I've joined this forum out of desperation, as I don't know where else to turn to. Thank you for listening.

March 1st in Lancing needed to pull over to look at my map, check my phone. On busy A259. Notice a big P think, ah, sensible place to pull over : time 14:34
Set off again 10-15 minutes later.
Go to customer, pick up stuff, put in van set off home. Hear stuff moving in back of van. Need to pull over, just by the same P pull in again. Adjust stuff in back of van leave after 5 minutes time 15:32.

March 7th receive PCN from District Enforcement saying that I was there for 58 minutes (14:34 - 15:32) according to ANPR
They refuse to recheck CCTV footage. If I want to do anything, I have to claim through The IAS.
The IAS refuse to provide advice, they say I must claim or they are not interested.

However, if I do make a claim the likely outcome is either
a) District Enforcement will probably still say I only went in/out of the car park once that day not twice, and deny their error
b) If they actually did check and verify they might say on the first visit I was there for 11 minutes therefore over grace period - pay Fine
Fine then increases from £25-£50.

Basically District Enforcement have a fault with either cameras or admin. They are lying!! I have been charged based on false information.

So the questions....

1) if I make a claim and they do acknowledge I was there twice, does that invalidate the original PCN and they would have to raise a new PCN if they found out I was there for over the 10 minute grace period on the first visit.

2) if they do not acknowledge my being there twice, what happens? How can I prove it? Can a third party check the CCTV footage?

Thank you for listening. This is just so frustrating. District Enforcement are lying. They have charged me on false information.

And all I wanted to do was behave as a sensible motorist and pull off a busy main to road to look at my phone!



Andrew

[charitynjw]

Hi & welcome

Can you post up a pic of the Notice to Keeper? (Front & rear, redact personal info, but leave times/dates visible.)

[andrewi]

Hello CharityNJW,

Thanks so much for reading the post. I have now attached copy of the PCN and also the response I had from them when I appealed.

I have also had an email from them a short while ago in which they say that they have 'checked' their logs and can confirm that the only entries shown for my vehicle are entry at 14:34 and exit at 15:32. No other entries. THIS IS NOT TRUE

It's just so frustrating as this is not true. So they must be operating a car park using faulty equipment or software. But it is their word against mine I am presumed guilty until proven innocent.

Thank you again for looking.

Kindest regards



Andrew

[charitynjw]

Where did you go in betweentimes?

Any witnesses?

Does your phone have a tracking facility?
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/201...tion-tracking/

This kind of thing happens frequently.....google 'double dip parking'.

[charitynjw]

In your email to them, did you say or infer who was driving/parking at the time?

Not to worry too much if you did.

[andrewi]

Sadly don't have that facility enabled on my phone but very interesting. I could ask the person I went to see if they would confirm I was there, although I don't really want to ask them.

Perhaps I'm being naive here, but these parking companies are just allowed to get away with! Morals, principles and ethics seem to have disappeared!

[charitynjw]

All you need is an independant winess to verify that during the relevant period you were elsewhere.

That will blow their assertion into a cocked hat.

Also, do you keep a daily log of where & when deliveries are made?

[charitynjw]

Perhaps I'm being naive here, but these parking companies are just allowed to get away with! Morals, principles and ethics seem to have disappeared!

Not diasappeared, no.

Some of them never had any to begin with!

[ostell]

I have this lingering suspicion that this is a council owned car park and therefore no keeper liability. This has been a problem in the last few weeks

[charitynjw]

Go to customer, pick up stuff, put in van set off home

I forgot to ask.....in a business capacity?
If so, is it a Ltd Co. (or similar)?

[ostell]

These links might be of assistance.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...368&hl=lancing
http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?...343&hl=lancing

The car park is owned by Lancing Council and has a Parking order on it. It is therefore not relevant land for the purpose of POFA and only the driver can be held liable. A lot of the PCN issued since DE were brought in were cancelled.

[andrewi]

Thanks so much to everyone. Reading all this stuff I'm quite amazed at what seems to happen in the parking world.

I'm not quite sure what "The car park is owned by Lancing Council and has a Parking order on it. It is therefore not relevant land for the purpose of POFA and only the driver can be held liable" means.

Am I a business? well I suppose so. I just have a little company selling garden sculpture. It's something I do in my retirement, and the idea is mainly to help artists promote their work. So technically I was on business when I made that trip.

Did I say I was the driver, Yes. I have been totally honest through out the whole process, and said exactly what happened, I saw no need for obfuscation.

I don't really want to get my customer involved in this (witness statement), and today is the last day to pay £25 else it goes up to £50.

What you have all said has been really helpful. Thank you. I feel vindicated. At the end of the day, all I wanted to do was pull over and stop somewhere sensible!

[charitynjw]

If it is land owned by the council & not 'relevant land', private parking co's have no right to issue parking charge notices.

[andrewi]

"And only the driver held liable" ? What does that bit mean

So does this mean that Lancing Parish Council are not allowed to use DE, or that DE are not properly authorised to work on that site?

[des8]

That bit about it being council land etc etc means that only the driver of the vehicle can be held liable for the parking charge.
If you had not told them you were the driver they would not be able to pursue you as the registered keeper.

As it is, to avoid paying this charge you will have to prove that you used the park twice, but their ANPR software recorded it as only one long stay.
The way to do that is to prove you were elsewhere, and this is where your customer comes in.