Termination vs Redundancy - what's the law?

[CityJungle7]

Hoping someone could help with a little query for my husband.

He's been at the same employer since Q3 2015 till date, and over the last month or so the (family owned) company has been letting employees go, one by one. Reasons given to my husband's colleagues were "we're not making enough money, and have to let people go". The company recently moved their offices into the City in a really expensive area, and everyone knew about the losses they were making due to other factors.
Early this week, the company owners started calling people in one at a time, until they go to the end of the day and called my husband in. They told him the bad news, and that his contract has been 'terminated'. He asked if he was getting fired? they said no not at all, and not to take it personally; that the company needed to focus on other areas of the business that would generate more profit. Unfortunately the entire team is getting dissolved, where some tasks will be handed over to those remaining in the company to do as 'side jobs'.

Now, from my experience of being a City worker, this situation would be labelled as 'Redundancy' - where he would be entitled to a minimum of 1 weeks' pay for each full year he was employed (and all the others members of that were affected). When my husband spoke to them about this, they said "No, this wouldn't be redundancy, your contact is just being terminated". My husband's immediate reaction was "well, what's the reason?" - response: "we're not making a profit from the work the work being done by this team, to be able to keep you" - Even though there's proof that profits have increased!

They've given him 1 months' notice (which you wouldn't do if he was 'dismissed/fired'), and can't seem to give a proper reason as to why this 'termination' has happened, nor why this would not be categorised as 'redundancy'.

I'd like to understand (from a legal perspective) what actions can be taken here, and whether of not this is in fact redundancy. I feel like they're trying to hide away from paying their employees redundancy and instead just keep saying 'sorry, contact is now terminated, nothing personal, we just can't afford to keep you'!!.

Any help/answers would be highly appreciated.

[ULA]

Sorry to hear about your husband's situation.

Redundancy is a situation where typically:

1. the need for the work has diminished or ceased; or

2. the business is closing down; or

3. the job no longer exists because other workers are doing the work the employee is doing; or

4. the business moves; or

5. the business is transferred to another employer.

In my opinion the situation you have described in regard to your husband could be covered by point 1 above i.e. because "we're not making a profit from the work being done by this team, to be able to keep you" can be seen to be that the need for the job your husband carries out has ceased to exist because that part of the business is not profitable.

I would therefore suggest that your husband writes to his employer stating that the situation of his termination from the company is by reason of redundancy and that as such he is entitled to redundancy pay, any accrued but untaken holiday pay up until the date of his termination together with his one month’s notice, which I assume is his contractual notice.

[CityJungle7]

Sorry to hear about your husband's situation.

Redundancy is a situation where typically:

1. the need for the work has diminished or ceased; or

2. the business is closing down; or

3. the job no longer exists because other workers are doing the work the employee is doing; or

4. the business moves; or

5. the business is transferred to another employer.

In my opinion the situation you have described in regard to your husband could be covered by point 1 above i.e. because "we're not making a profit from the work being done by this team, to be able to keep you" can be seen to be that the need for the job your husband carries out has ceased to exist because that part of the business is not profitable.

I would therefore suggest that your husband writes to his employer stating that the situation of his termination from the company is by reason of redundancy and that as such he is entitled to redundancy pay, any accrued but untaken holiday pay up until the date of his termination together with his one month’s notice, which I assume is his contractual notice.

Thank you so much for your response. I agree with what you've highlighted above and really appreciate it.

However, my husband spoke again with his boss to get an answer as to why his contract is being 'terminated', he said he'll get someone to respond back on this soon and that he's really sorry to have to let him go. He also said that he couldn't even afford him the last 6 months and that he's sure he'll find another opportunity soon (lots of bla bla)

1 week later and they told him and they were ready to give him an answer/reason for termination: "We're 'firing' you because of attendance"- (They were very strict on what time their employees started - had to be in the office promptly by 9:00 even though they are not customer facing). His boss gave him a verbal warning and my husband would always make up for any lateness (cutting his break short or staying back an extra 30 mins) - and proof of this is available as it was all confirmed via email.

Now, 1: My husband's response was "well, if that's the case, and you're firing me, why didn't you say so from the start? - response: "the word 'firing' is harder to say and we didn't want to call it that" (so it basically took them 1 week to confirm what they were going to call it - obviously only to get out of calling it redundancy).

2: My husband's been working there for over 3 years, seems crazy/unfair that suddenly he's being fired because of attendance, with no written warning all hours made up, and he has never been off/late since that situation happened last year.

3: I have never heard of someone getting fired, but also receiving 1 month's notice!? Why would you still request someone's services for another month if you were so upset with them and now are fired?

4: The entire department has been affected, however my husband seems to be the only one that has been there for longer than 2 years (and would be entitled to redundancy) - so it's a coincidence that everyone has to leave the team at the exact same time husband is being 'fired'?!

5: When they first told my husband about the news, he specifically asked them if he was getting fired, and they said "no, it's not like that, and we'll support you with any references you may need, and if you need to take time off for interviews etc" - now that isn't the way you'd talk to someone you're firing!!

6: I think they were shocked to learn that he would be entitled to redundancy and so decided to call it 'fired' instead, to get out of it all

We're going to speak to ACAS this week to see what action to take next (and if he is in fact entitled to anything)

Only issue now is that the company till today doesn't want to release anything in writing. He's asked for his termination letter to be given to him, with his last working day highlighted - and they keep delaying it!

[ULA]

It sounds like they have got themselves into a pickle and they are trying to get out of the situation but only making it potentially worse for themselves!

By now saying they are firing your husband due to attendance without going through a disciplinary process and with him having more than 2 years’ service means that potentially your husband has a claim for unfair dismissal.

Your husband has the right to ask for a written statement from your employer giving the reasons why he has been dismissed and they must supply the statement within 14 days of the request.

I would certainly speak to ACAS and see what they advise. Pop back and let us know but either way I think your husband has a potential claim either for a redundancy payment or to make an unfair dismissal claim.