Preserved right to buy and mutual exchange

[Burkep9461]

Hi,
I have just joined this group following noticing a post similar to mine from back in 2016.
I am just after any advice at all if possible.
I completed a mutual exchange in 2012 with a pre 2002 tenant who had the preserved right to buy. On completing the exchange we were advised that as it was an assignment of tenancy I would therefore have her preserved right to buy status and discount - at the time I was somewhat surprised by this to be fair as was she however the exchange went ahead by deed of assignment.
On this advice in 2014 I completed a Right to Buy application and was granted to purchase the house on these terms with 17 years full discount - inherited from the previous tenant at 47 %.
Unfortunately on receiving this I was then put into redundancy consultation and had to withdraw from the sale.
I have now spent the last 4 years investing money and time into this property and saving money to be able to purchase this property.
I re-submitted my Right to Buy forms in August of this year stating the exact same on them as I did back in 2014.
I have now been refused this right to buy on the grounds that I have been misled initially and I have never had it and this is not the case.
The Housing Association are openly admitting on the two letters of response that they have sent me that I was indeed granted this in 2014 however I never should have been advised of this nor should it have ever been granted.
I have these documents however the original documents I don't have but have submitted a SAR at the beginning of this month to get these back.
It has become apparent since that mutual exchange tenants are all being advised the same as I was so god knows how many people are in this situation. My tenancy is also the one for transfer tenants 2002 and states in it both that I have Preserved right to Buy and the right to acquire but the Housing association are saying this is just a general term to reiterate that you had it if you had it to start with despite the fact any post 2002 tenancies only state the right to acquire.
I don't feel the Housing association should be able to just fob this off as misadvice and a mistake. The people that according to the housing association would have kept the preserved right to buy are being advised they pass it over to the new tenant on exchange and the people they exchange with are being told it has passed to them when in effect it remains with the original tenant so they are claiming now.
Had I not been granted this once on the same terms I would find this easier to accept however I have

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Amethyst]

Even if your RTB only started when you moved to the property in 2012 you would have 5/6 years discount now in your own right ( so 36% ) - so yes you may have been misled originally ( you don't inherit someone elses right to buy on an exchange, but you do take yours with you, so not sure when you became a council tenant initially ?) and you shouldn't have been granted the RTB after only 2 years so that was a cock up by them, but you should have the RTB in your own right.

RTB and RTA are virtually the same in any case. Was the property you moved to already owned by the Housing Association when you moved there?

https://www.gov.uk/right-to-acquire-...sociation-home
https://www.gov.uk/right-to-buy-buyi...r-council-home

The people that according to the housing association would have kept the preserved right to buy are being advised they pass it over to the new tenant on exchange and the people they exchange with are being told it has passed to them when in effect it remains with the original tenant so they are claiming now.

Yes that is wrong. Has any of this advice been in writing at all?

[Burkep9461]

Even if your RTB only started when you moved to the property in 2012 you would have 5/6 years discount now in your own right ( so 36% ) - so yes you may have been misled originally ( you don't inherit someone elses right to buy on an exchange, but you do take yours with you, so not sure when you became a council tenant initially ?) and you shouldn't have been granted the RTB after only 2 years so that was a cock up by them, but you should have the RTB in your own right.

RTB and RTA are virtually the same in any case. Was the property you moved to already owned by the Housing Association when you moved there?

https://www.gov.uk/right-to-acquire-...sociation-home
https://www.gov.uk/right-to-buy-buyi...r-council-home

Hi

Yes it was already owned by the Housing Association.
They granted it me after two years of exchange on the grounds I inherited her discount which I couldn't actually believe to be fair.

Right to Acquire is only a maximum 9 thousand pound discount for my area regardless of years unfortunately, the right to buy they granted me in 2014 was at 47% off the property market price.
I am wondering more so really on having evidence of being granted this once under the exact same terms do I have any case in making the Housing Association Liable for not only misadvising me but also granting this incorrectly once to now just fob it off with it was all one big mistake ?

I know of six people personally now that this Housing Association have given this incorrect information to . the lady I exchanged with wanted to purchase and was told she couldn't as she had given her Preserved Right to Buy and discount to me so she has now also lost out as she no longer resides in the Housing Association property.
I think on some scale that the HA shouldn't be allowed to be doing this to people - I know of one person that has been advised the same just after Christmas of last year so it isn't like they have made an error and stopped they are still misinforming people along these lines

[Burkep9461]

Even if your RTB only started when you moved to the property in 2012 you would have 5/6 years discount now in your own right ( so 36% ) - so yes you may have been misled originally ( you don't inherit someone elses right to buy on an exchange, but you do take yours with you, so not sure when you became a council tenant initially ?) and you shouldn't have been granted the RTB after only 2 years so that was a cock up by them, but you should have the RTB in your own right.

RTB and RTA are virtually the same in any case. Was the property you moved to already owned by the Housing Association when you moved there?

https://www.gov.uk/right-to-acquire-...sociation-home
https://www.gov.uk/right-to-buy-buyi...r-council-home



Yes that is wrong. Has any of this advice been in writing at all?

Hi

I don't have my deed of assignment back yet hopefully there will be something in that however once I receive my RTB forms back from 2014 this will state the reasons that I was granted it on it and I also have in writing that this was granted to me in 2014 under these terms.
I suppose I may be better to wait until all of this paperwork comes back and then go to CAB ?

[Burkep9461]

So I received my SAR paperwork back from the Housing Association and low and behold 2014 s right to buy was all missing . I emailed and requested this today and have received 43 pages of paperwork they just must have forgotten to include . In this it states in writing right to buy admitted by Helena Partnerships tenancy assignment to mutual exchange took place is eligible to take on previous tenants years at property for purpose of right to buy as the reason that I was granted this ? I also now have a whole load of paperwork that says they admitted i had it the offer of sale paperwork from 2014 and my deed of assignment which states the tenancy assignment does not affect or prejudice any of the terms or conditions in the tenancy. The tenancy states I have preserved right to buy and the right to acquire the housing association claim now this means I have this if I had it originally and is just to affirm this however no post 2002 tenancy has any mention of preserved right to buy only right to acquire.
just wondering if any one thinks I will be able to take this further now I actually have all the paperwork?
Thanks

[Amethyst]

Seems you were definitely misled before exchanging and on your previous application, it's never been the case you take over the person leaving a property's RTB, it's always been RTB stays with the tenant - so you brought yours with you and the previous tenant took hers with her ( or should have done !!)

For the purpose of Right to Buy, you will not inherit the years of tenancy from the person you’re exchanging with. But, you will keep the years you have already spent as a public sector tenant yourself.

Whether either of you had preserved RTB seems to rely on when the HA took over from the council etc and what your previous tenancy was. Sometimes it seems preserved rtb is lost when moving to a property with a different landlord ( rather than the HA taking over from the council while you live there)… but I'm not entirely clear on the rules there.

Be interesting to see the document they sent you stating otherwise from the 2014 application.

[Burkep9461]

I don’t know how to post photos on here plus it has my personal details on can you private message documents ?

[Amethyst]

You can email if easier - admin@legalbeagles.info

[Burkep9461]

Think I might have done both now ha ha ooopsiw

[Amethyst]

Got it.

When did you first start your tenancy at the house you exchanged from ? and was previous house originally council and then HA took it over - so both houses were the HA when you exchanged?



And yes yes this is wrong but they did say it...

E0FEDAA8-B561-4DCF-874F-5F762BD7ED2D.jpeg

Worse … I think … is that the person you exchanged with, was told she no longer had RTB …. despite having actually had 47 years as a public sector tenant.

[Burkep9461]

In 2009 , we have never had preserved right to buy in our own right as we were not transfer tenants from the council sale the lady we exchanged with however was.
i posted about this on another site before this one and was accused of lying and misunderstanding what I was told you can clearly see I acted on what I was told and was granted it under these terms ? I mean what if I hadn’t nearly been made redundant and had bought it what then would they be coming asking for it back ? It is all very frustrating

[Burkep9461]

Sorry the complete message hadn’t shown x when we both exchanged the properties were both then HA yes . Yes she was told on deed of assignment that she lost her right to buy as she passed it to us she wasn’t happy but was desperate to move due to the bedroom tax

[Amethyst]

I wondered if you'd maybe misread, but tbh you don't come across like you'd misunderstood at all....just slightly peeved that you were misled... understandably..... there is definitely some oddness gone on here. I can see on your application to buy in 2014 you wrote what the HA had told you about you taking over the previous tenants RTB - you didn't misrepresent that at all either on the form - so there is no blame on you whatsoever I can see - the HA came back and agreed with you and made the offer of the discount.

I'm not surprised the previous tenant wasn't happy - and ( sorry ) my sympathies lie with her completely. She could have bought the property with the maximum discount - it must have been devastating - and that it all happened because of the ruddy bedroom tax in the first place... well. I sympathise with your position of course as you were totally misled and had the sale gone ahead in 2014... well you'll never know if it would have gone through and whether they'd have come back at you later.

Your actual position is you started in housing association and have been for 9 years but as you were never a council tenant you only have right to acquire, not right to buy - which apparently in your area means maximum discount of £9k ( have checked the table and yes that's right ) - if you had of had preserved RTB you'd have a 39% ish discount I think - whereas you were previously offered a 17 yr discount... so completely understand how much the errors back in 2014 have affected you.

I have my RTB forms filled in ready to take in to the council office ( as we had to pull out a couple years ago like you did due to being unable to get a mortgage ) - I can only imagine how gutted I'd be now if they turned round and said no this time, after working hard for the last few years to get things sorted so we could buy.

I think while you're waiting for the next steps and offer on your current RTB application you could do well to start a complaint and getting some FOI requests in to the councils / HA regarding RTB sales and discounts. We should have a think on that - if this Housing Association have been purposely removing preserved right to buy from long term public sector tenants wrongly - that needs exposing and dealing with.... and if they have been allowing short term tenants to obtain higher discounts than they were entitled to.... the same. Needs some investigation and complaints being made which needs some thought first.


So yes I believe you ( if that helps ) it's figuring out what to do with it now....

sorry for the ramble there lol.

[Amethyst]

Confirming 17 yrs RTB

TENANCY START DATE: 25/11/1996

EC15F9CB-0203-4267-A9D1-2D6FDD975EED.jpeg

[Burkep9461]

Oh I completely understand your sympathy with the lady I exchanged with and initially could not believe this was correct at the time when I was told so when it came back as yes no problem you can buy at this price I was shocked but it did on the grounds that they had advised me on. I know if six relatives that have done a mutual exchange like me and have been told the same and that is the ones I know about. I have invested a lot in this house and saved for the last four years with full intent to buy this year then bam . It was hers and she should have kept it and I completely understand that and would have thought that would be how it stayed but that wasn’t what we were all advised at the time :-( if she was still in a Helena housing property I would tell her all of this and that she could still buy however she has now moved areas and is no longer a Helena tenant so it will now be lost. I have so far submitted two formal complaints I am awaiting a response from the second as the onbudsman advised I needed to escalate it as far as I could with the HA before they can help. However they need to stop misadvising people of this as it isn’t fair. The other point is had I bought 4 years ago this discount would have been claimed back fraudulently from the government as I have never and should never have been granted preserved right to buy so I agree it needs to be dealt with. I think in the end I will end up having to acquire with the 9 thousand discount as I have put far too much effort now into the property to walk away however I don’t believe the HA should get away with saying oh we have been misadvising people and that’s that go away they need to be answerable for this. When I originally received the response of no the lady I spoke to said I was the third person that week so I was surprised when using good old google that there were only two other cases like mine and both from many many years ago . I think they were hoping I was just going to go away but this isn’t now mainly about my right to buy discount although don’t get me wrong it would be nice it is more the fact that I don’t think they should just get away with it :-(