medical dismissal

[valeriej43]

My son has been off work due to illness since March, he was a baker, he had several small strokes and been under the Dr since then, also the hospital, his company has been trying to get him to go back but couldn't offer him any other [lighter]job with decent hours, only a 12 hour week, he couldn't go back into the bakery as the hours and heavy lifting were too much, he is a member of the bakers union and they now think he should be offered redundancy on medical grounds and receive severance pay, they seem to have wanted him to hand his notice in rather have to pay him as he cannot work again in that job, has anyone any experience of anything like this
He has applied for universal credit and they [SAINSBURYS] keep sending him holiday pay every month which is affecting his claim
Also he had an accident at work through a faulty floor ,broken tiles where a large bread cage fell on him, it was after this he was off work
The company [Sainsburys ] have accepted responsibility and paying him compensation, but will this also affect any benefits he is likely to get,his claim is just going through[for UB]
sorry I REALISE THIS IS 2 SEPERATE QUERIES

[Peridot]

Re: medical dismissal

Hi valeriej43,
Your poor son. I'm not an employment expert but will tag [MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION] who may be able to give you some pointers on the redundancy side.

As far as the personal injury is concerned, yes any damages can affect benefit payments. However it is possible to place any damages received into a personal injury trust. Any damages would have to go into the trust as soon as they are received. A Claimant has 52 weeks in which to 'deal' with any damages, this includes any interim payment, as the weeks start counting from that payment date. So for example, if an interim payment were received in May and then final settlement was 18 months later, the trust would have to be set up at the interim payment point in the May, not waiting until the final settlement. Any damages received have to go straight into the trust that is set up not into a bank account to then be transferred. Of course the settlement could be spent within the 52 week period but he would need to evidence what they were used for, eg. paying debts off, car purchase etc.

This is a specialist area and if your son has lawyers acting for him in relation to the personal injury claim, they should advise him on this.
If he does not have lawyers acting in relation to the claim, I would suggest he gets some advice as soon as possible, in order to protect any benefits he may be entitled to, irrespective of the damages payment he may receive.

I hope this helps.

[valeriej43]

Re: medical dismissal

Thank you very much for your reply, he has been told the compensation wont affect his benefits,[he is hoping to get a flat asap, and will need the money for bond /rent etc,and furniture,he is living with me at the moment
It is the holiday pay that Sainsburys keep paying him that is affecting his benefits,he has to go to the job centre every time and fill another form in
The damages claim iosnt much,only £4-800 which will be paid in full
Sainsburys are also paying the CSA money which has officially stopped in July,which usually came out of his wages,he has spoken to the CSA about this,but it continues to be paid to them

[Peridot]

Re: medical dismissal

What a nightmare for him.
Is that 4,000 or 400? It won't make a difference but I wonder why it is so little in damages. Did your son receive treatment for any injury he sustained? Has he had any medical evidence prepared on his behalf? Or is this a very minor incident that his employers are dealing with as a gesture of goodwill so to speak?
His benefits would be affected if any damages he received meant he had more than £10,000 in savings. However from the sounds of it this will not be the case. Sorry if I muddied the water, I had assumed the damages were a considerable sum, hence my comments about personal injury trusts.
The 52 week rule still applies to any damages he receives, so if he did have over £10,000 then provided he pays deposit and furninture etc that he can evidence through receipts within the 52 weeks following receipt of the damages, then he shouldn't be penalised.
From what you say it seems he does not have any savings that would be added to any damages he receives?
Re-reading the original post I assume that the injury was not significant and it is the strokes that are preventing him returning to the bakery?

Has he spoken to HR or accounts at Sainsburys, about the CSA money being paid. He may need something in writing from Sainsbury explaining the situation that he can send to the CSA. I'm afraid I think it is a case of nagging and finding out what they need to correct the current information the CSA has and to stop the payments being made.

[valeriej43]

Re: medical dismissal

Thanks again for replies,sorry it is £4,800, he had concussion, also damaged knee, but he has an alcohol problem and someone said they could smell alcohol on him, which could be true, but he didn't drink when at work, even if he had had just a night out they would possibly have smelt alcohol on him, he started work at 3am, but it doesn't alter the fact that the floor tiles were broken, and that is what caused the accident ,the large bread trolley wheels caught on the broken tiles,Sainsburys had it repaired the same day, and admitted liability
He had already had a TIA a few weeks before that and the Dr advised him to try to get a less stressful position in the store, Sainsburys said they had nothing, he needed to work so had to carry on with the bakery work,
He stupidly refused to go to hospital after the accident,but it was put in the accident book,
Another employee took him home,he felt dazed and just wanted to go home
To answer your question about what medical evidence he had,he saw a neurologist and was taken into hospital after yet another TIA ,
His alcohol problem didn't help, even though he had been working there for about 12 years .was always on time and often filled in for anyone off sick,
They obviously were not worried about his alcohol problem then
Sainsburys have not treated him well I believe, even when he had a huge [cyst] on the side of his face and neck they insisted he went in,, not very nice to see in a bakery
He was worked like a slave and lost a lot of weight, and looked ill, it was a very stressful job,
The alcohol problem started after he was stabbed about 15 years ago, plus the stress of this job, didn't help, as he wasn't getting proper sleep, , and I think they are using it against him, but regarding the CSA he has been in touch twice with the main boss and told them he doesn't pay it anymore, also already had a refund from the CSA from previous payments to them,
He has a union rep helping with this medical dismissal , and yes he has been in touch with HR ,
Sorry if this sounds a bit muddled,the original compensation was £6,500, but the solicitors fees were deducted from this
Sainsburys have had notice now,that my son isn't fit to go back to work, and should be made redundant on medical grounds,
It looked as if they wanted him to give his notice
I have to say our Dr has been brilliant and backed him up all the way, with letters and reports , also lots of medical reports from the hospital
Hes has also since been to rehab, at his own request,

[ULA]

Re: medical dismissal

I have looked at the redundancy query and I think your son's union is not giving correct advice. Dismissing a person on the grounds of redundancy occurs when the job the person is doing no longer exists which might be because the business is:

• changing what it does
• doing things in a different way, for example using new machinery
• changing location or closing down

None of the above criteria satisfy the situation. If there is a job to be done then his company cannot make him redundant.

If your son continues to be signed off work and there is no suitable alternative employment then it is likely that at some stage the company will commence a process to dismiss him. However they would need to consider the nature of the several small strokes that you referred to as to whether this would be considered a disability under the Equality Act and the company would have to ensure they have considered any reasonable adjustments to accommodate your son in any available alternative roles.

[valeriej43]

Re: medical dismissal

Thank you for your advice,the company have told him they have nothing to offer him except something on a 12 hours a week contract, but at the moment his Dr has said he is not fit for work at all
Maybe I got it wrong and its not classed as redundancy, but that he is not fit for that job especially and not fit for work at all at the moment
He is on about 8 different tablets, including Antidepressants and blood thinners,[not warfarin]
Iwill ask my son for the exact wording of the letter sent to Sainsburys
My son had asked if he could be moved to an easier and lighter position in the company after his first stroke, but they said they had nothing available
He also has another medical condition, Haemochromatosis [iron overload] and this makes him very tired and weak sometimes, and the only way to treat this is a venesection, whuich takes a pint or equivalant of blood every few weeks,
I will update when I get the correct info from my son

[valeriej43]

Re: medical dismissal

Just an update on my sons situation at work, it is Occupational health who have written to Sainsburys and said my son wont be fit for work for the forseable future, and under the mental and physical health act 2010
Sorry that's all I can remember him telling me today
Hope this makes things a bit clearer

[valeriej43]

Re: medical dismissal

Another problem has cropped up now, because Sainsburys has paid him some holiday money, his claim for Universal credit has been stopped twice,this week he was sup[posed to get his payment plus being backdated,he has only received £38 to live on for 2 weeks
Sainsburys also paid the CSA when they were told it had finished in July, he will get that back but it shouldn't have been paid anyway
They have messed everything up, and now he has been told he has to go for a disciplinary hearing
Can anyone give advice on this please?
Were Sainsburys wrong to pay holiday pay when no holiday were booked or asked for,and what can my son do about this
A meeting has been arranged to discuss severance pay, with the help of a union my son is in

[ULA]

Re: medical dismissal

I presume the company has written to him formally asking him to attend a disciplinary hearing providing details of what they want to discuss, provided any documentary evidence if relevant, detailed any likely outcome and that he has the right to be accompanied.

As he is part of the union he is well advised to have his union rep with him at the meeting.

I would need to understand what the company's policy is in regard to holiday and the payment thereof is staff are on sick leave.

[valeriej43]

Re: medical dismissal

Ula Thank you for your reply,yes a meeting has been arranged, and his union rep is going to be there,
I don't think it will be a disciplinary hearing as he wont be going back or working at all for a while
All documents etc have been sent and proof of why he cant work again for the foreseeable future
His ex manager did mention it being a disciplinary hearing, but the union rep said not,
However I will update when the meeting has been held
As far as I know they shouldn't have paid any holiday pay if he had no holidays booked,could be wrong, but he will have more to come I believe,but its the fact it has messed his claim for UC up,and he has to go through claiming again as a new claim

[ULA]

Re: medical dismissal

If there is nothing to the contrary in his contract covering payment of holiday whilst on long term sick then I have no logical explanation as to why the company is doing that If he had not pre-booked holiday.

If the hearing is due soon then I suggest your son raises the holiday pay issue with whoever chairs the meeting. If it is still someway off then maybe send an email into the HR department and ask then why the payments are being made and explain the impact it is having on his claim for US.

[valeriej43]

Re: medical dismissal

Thank you once again,the meeting is this coming Wednesday, and the matter of holiday pay was discussed after the first one, and still they put another one in his bank, so his claim for universal credit was put back again, as the holiday pay was counted as income, and he has lost about £600 in back pay now