DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

[nicknock]

Hi

When I was at university as a single mum, I claimed income support, which you're entitled to do. This was back in 2001-2004!

The DWP have contacted me a couple of times over the years saying I fraudulently claimed and didn't declare I was a student. I absolutely did and in any case I would've still been allowed to claim income support.

They have now written to me to say they have asked my employer to commence deductions from my earnings. The debt is over £11,000!

My understanding is that a debt becomes statute barred after 6 years so are they allowed to take this form of action? Ive appealed their decision twice over the years and they've dismissed it, the last time they didn't even look in to it, my bet is because they don't have the paperwork anymore!?

I dont actually owe them anything, it clearly says in law that you can claim income support if a student and a single parent so I don't understand it!

Can anyone help?

Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

Is this letter actually them saying they have done it or is it an initial letter advising you if you do not make arrangements to pay the debt, a DEA will be sent to your employer ?

Did you get the outcome of the appeals each time in writing ? Can you reply to them again informing them of the situation and the appeals already made. You may have to make a formal complaint - possibly get your MP involved. ( complaints info https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...ints-procedure )

How old was your child when you were at University - were you studying on a full time course, and presumably you didn't live in halls of residence at the time?

[nicknock]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

They have done it, and they enclosed a copy of the letter to my employer.

I did but I don't have them anymore as it was so long ago. There were never any reasons given as to why, just that it had been unsuccessful. They are claiming fraud but with no grounds!

My son was 18 months when I started so by the time I left would've been 5 ish. It was a full time course yes and I lived elsewhere off campus in my own rented house.

[Amethyst]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

Yip you should have been entitled to Income Support then, I think, just checking the rules from the time.... it was well before the age limited was dropped to 5 anyway.

Okay did you have a student loan at the time? Student Loans were treated as income for means tested benefit purposes from 1999 with certain deductions for travel and books/equipment. Do you know if you had maximum income support or a reduced amount due to income at all ?
Did you have housing benefit too?


Do you recall the reasons why they said your appeals were unsuccessful at the time?

Do you recall how you informed them you were a student originally ?

[nicknock]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

I did have a student loan and I told them that in my application and had a subsequent interview where I went through all the paperwork and had to show evidence of my loan, I did get housing benefit too yes.

They have never given a reason, just that it was dismissed and it still stands! I think they don't have the paperwork anymore so can't actually provide any proof.

[Amethyst]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

It's so out of order they can just stick a DEA on people without having to evidence or prove there actually was any overpayment....and being able to do it for old ''debts'' too .... completely unfair... and in your case it sounds like it is an error. They seem to be reclaiming the full amount over 3 years too if they are claiming £11k. HB was reliant on getting IS too so you'd think if it was wrong you got IS you'd be getting hassle about a HB overpayment too.

You need to do another appeal and a formal complaint. Mandatory reconsideration process only seems to apply to overpayments incurred after 2013 so I'm not sure if you can do that - the info on appeals is https://www.gov.uk/social-security-c...pport-tribunal and complaints ( over how they have dealt with it all) is https://www.gov.uk/government/organi...ints-procedure

[MENTION=48934]Debt Camel[/MENTION]; might have a better idea of the correct process to get this decision looked at and at least force DWP to give the reasons behind it, otherwise worth making an appointment to see an advisor at Citizens Advice.

[nicknock]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

Exactly! And my employer legally has to commence with the deductions. Im worried that if I appeal again I'll lose and then what? If they don't have proof how can they pursue me or legally ask my employer to make the deductions!?

[Debt Camel]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

sorry, your local Citizens Advice is the best place.

[warwick65]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

sorry, your local Citizens Advice is the best place.

With respect that may very well depend on where you live.

[Wylderose]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

Nicknock, unless you want to pay £11K back via attachment to earnings, you will have to fight the DWP. You have nothing left to lose by doing so. They are the only ones, apart from a Tribunal who can stop the AOE

Debts to do with Benefit fraud are the one type of debt that cannot be written off with DRO's, IVA's or Bankruptcy and I don't think they become statute barred either but only if fraud has been proven, the claimant interviewed under caution and either prosecuted or instead of prosecution has accepted an administrative penalty. In other words the debt has to be classified as Fraud and not just claimant error.

If they are alleging fraud, then they must think they have a basis to do so. This would involve your original claim and any documents subsequently submitted by you (your student finance and course details), transcripts of telephone conversations and face to face conversations (possibly as claim notes), plus details of any investigations that the fraud and error service may have undertaken. As you say you have appealed their decision twice, so there must be reconsideration notes and statements of reasons arising from these too.

I think you need to submit a Subject Access Request to the DWP, to include but not limited to, "copies of all correspondence that you have sent them and that they have sent you from the start of your claim (including your claim form) to current date, plus all documentation relating your 2 appeals/reconsiderations, transcripts of all telephonic communications and claim notes. And also any proof that they claim to have that you have committed fraud." They have 40 days to respond - some of it may come redacted. If they are trying to recover monies that they say you obtained fraudulently and have not prosecuted you, then they need to prove their case. They also need to provide a breakdown of the overpayment giving the exact dates for the overpayment and the Social Security regulations relating to the creation of the over payment and the date that they made the decision.

Once you have all this your next port of call is Citizen's Advice because you will need some specialist advice and help. Also enlist the help of your MP - you will need the clout that his/her office can give because essentially you will be challenging a decision that they have made some time ago and they will consider your challenge as "out of time".

You need to be able to establish from the documentation that they had full knowledge of your circumstances and that in fact their decision to create an overpayment was incorrect. If you are out of time for an appeal, you will be asking for a Revision or a Supercession of their decision.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about the attachment to earnings at this point in time as your employer is legally bound to comply with it.

[Debt Camel]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

With respect that may very well depend on where you live.

Well yes. But as it is the best option for most people, what do you suggest I should say instead?

[Wylderose]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

CAB are usually one of the best places to turn to because they are nationally located, but there is also the option of getting some specialised advise through National Debt Line (https://www.nationaldebtline.org) and Turn to Us (https://www.turn2us.org.uk) always has a wealth of good advice and information on their website. They also have a "Locate an Advisor" tool that could be helpful

[45002]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

Hi

When I was at university as a single mum, I claimed income support, which you're entitled to do. This was back in 2001-2004!

The DWP have contacted me a couple of times over the years saying I fraudulently claimed and didn't declare I was a student. I absolutely did and in any case I would've still been allowed to claim income support.

They have now written to me to say they have asked my employer to commence deductions from my earnings. The debt is over £11,000!

My understanding is that a debt becomes statute barred after 6 years so are they allowed to take this form of action? Ive appealed their decision twice over the years and they've dismissed it, the last time they didn't even look in to it, my bet is because they don't have the paperwork anymore!?

I dont actually owe them anything, it clearly says in law that you can claim income support if a student and a single parent so I don't understand it!

Can anyone help?

Thanks

They have done it, and they enclosed a copy of the letter to my employer.

I did but I don't have them anymore as it was so long ago. There were never any reasons given as to why, just that it had been unsuccessful. They are claiming fraud but with no grounds!

My son was 18 months when I started so by the time I left would've been 5 ish. It was a full time course yes and I lived elsewhere off campus in my own rented house.

I did have a student loan and I told them that in my application and had a subsequent interview where I went through all the paperwork and had to show evidence of my loan, I did get housing benefit too yes.

They have never given a reason, just that it was dismissed and it still stands! I think they don't have the paperwork anymore so can't actually provide any proof.

Exactly! And my employer legally has to commence with the deductions. Im worried that if I appeal again I'll lose and then what? If they don't have proof how can they pursue me or legally ask my employer to make the deductions!?

nikkikitch Thread on another forum https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?483212




......................

[nicknock]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

Hi

yes I posted in another forum to get as much advice as poss, thats OK right haha?

Thanks for all your help, I think all of the advice points to the same thing, submit a SAR and go from there. I don't think they have any proof, in both of my appeals I asked for that and they didn't supply it, just dismissed my case and said I had to pay.

[Amethyst]

Re: DWP claiming I owe them £11k in overpayment of income support from 16 years ago

of course that's okay, best to get as many views as possible. A SAR sounds like a good idea to find out exactly what information they hold on you and what has led them to this decision and DEA.

Actually having a nosey - that's a good point made about the DEA for microbusinesses - worth looking into