Working hours and “down time”

[S3dave]

Hello everyone, I’m Dave. I have just joined after stumbling across this forum. My question will probably come with a large story but I will try to be brief. I have recently started at a new job and I’m having some problems. Basically in my interview I was told the job was for 40hrs per week, then when I got the job offer the contract said 39hrs per week with no start or finish time. I did not have a problem with and didn’t think anything of it. So I handed in my notice at my previous job and took this new one. Then on my first day I was told by other members of staff that I would be working 8am-5pm and I would get paid any overtime unless I worked before or after those hours. Now I’m no mathematician but even I can work out that that is 9hrs a day equating to 45hrs a week.. So basically I now have to work 6 hours a week for free.. when I questioned this I was told that because of the nature of my job I get what the company is calling “downtime” so meaning that I am not physically working for 9 hours a day they effectively add an hour on to the day to compensate for this downtime. Now also because of the nature of my job I also do not get a designated lunch break so I get 20minutes unpaid a day which is a part of the downtime..

So my issue is obviously that I now have to be at my place of employment for 45hrs per week but I only get paid for 39hrs per week. I took this new job to be closer to my family and spend more time with my 3yr old son but I now start work earlier than my last job and finish later. I have also been pulled into the office today where I was basically verbally attacked by 2 senior managers for claiming to be paid for the 45hrs I was at my place of employment last month and for documenting my hours on an overtime form which I did because I do not have a time sheet or any way or proving when I am at work. That was after being told to stay and the office today because one of the managers “needed a quick word later on”.

So finally I have joined this group in the hope of being able to speak with someone who understands all of this better than me. I have been looking to go to an employment law solicitor, however I do not have the money to go for a £250 consultation to be told this is normal. It certainly does not feel normal though.. I am 33yrs old and have worked full time since I was 16 and I have never heard of this being normal practice. This is not my only concern with this new job but once thing at a time (lol)

I am sorry for the long post and I did try to be brief.. I do hope someone can help me because I do not know what to do...

Many thanks
Dave

Edit: I may not be able to get on here until tomorrow evening but I will check back Thank you in advance

[Amethyst]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

Are paid hourly or salaried? ( am assuming hourly )
How many hours are you actually paid for?
How do other employees put their hours in? ( or is everyone just paid 39 hours regardless?)
If you work 45 hours and only get paid 39 does it work out you'd be under minimum wage per hour?
Is it your employer that told you to work 8am to 5pm or just something other staff do/have told you?
The 20 mins should be uninterupted and can be unpaid. The rest of the day you should be paid for the hours you are at work.
When you saw the manager yesterday re claiming to be paid for 45 hours - was that re saying to other staff what happened at your previous job?

Tagging [MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION]

( regarding that £250 consultation with a solicitor - you could speak with ACAS to confirm your actual rights at least to begin with http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042 )

[S3dave]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

Are paid hourly or salaried? ( am assuming hourly )
How many hours are you actually paid for?
How do other employees put their hours in? ( or is everyone just paid 39 hours regardless?)
If you work 45 hours and only get paid 39 does it work out you'd be under minimum wage per hour?
Is it your employer that told you to work 8am to 5pm or just something other staff do/have told you?
The 20 mins should be uninterupted and can be unpaid. The rest of the day you should be paid for the hours you are at work.
When you saw the manager yesterday re claiming to be paid for 45 hours - was that re saying to other staff what happened at your previous job?

Tagging [MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION]

( regarding that £250 consultation with a solicitor - you could speak with ACAS to confirm your actual rights at least to begin with http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=2042 )

Hello, thank you for responding. I am salary paid 17,116,44
Per annum and my contract says 39 hours a week. To my knowledge everyone in my area is doing the same but some branches in other areas work 8:30-4:30. I only get paid 39hrs unless I work before 8am or past 5pm then I get paid overtime. This means if I just do 8am-5pm on my basic salary I'm on £7.31ph as I have works it out. Basically I am an undertaker and the company is saying that I do 45hrs a week because I am not physically working for 39hrs a week. So they are saying that because I have "downtime" where I have no work to do that is not classed as work but the company which is why I am at my place of work for 45hrs but only get paid 39hrs a week to compensate for the time I am not physically working...
I hope that makes sense lol..

Thank you

[Amethyst]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

£7.31 per hour for 52 weeks and 45 hrs and minimum wage is £7.50 per hour. You should be on £8.44 an hour on 39 hrs at that salary - that sounds better for the work you do tbh. Did they give you an hourly rate or just a salary figure ? ( odd amount for salary though usually it's rounded to at least nearest £1 - that's def your top of note amount ?) If you are at, and available for work, you should be paid for it ( barring your 20 mins lunch break time )Employers must pay at least the minimum wage for any hours worked in addition to what’s agreed in the worker’s contract.

Are you based on the premises permanently or do you have to travel out to clients addresses etc ?

Any weekend work on top ?


Have a chat with ACAS about it for the moment, They, and / [MENTION=51026]Ula[/MENTION] when she comes on, will have a far better idea how you can handle this with the employer wihtout jeopardising your job. Are you in work today?

[mystery1]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

If you get 20 mins unpaid break then you are only paid for 8 hours 40 minutes per day. 43 hours 20 minutes per week. I make that just shy of £7.60 per hour.

The biggest problem you have is that you essentially have no rights. If you complain it's likely you'll suffer either in the sense they'll screw you hoping you leave or actual termination. Many places of employment run on the mantle "do as you are told or feck off"

M1

[S3dave]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

You I'm not 100% on the rate of pay. I was just given a salary no hourly rate. So my working was 17,116.44 ÷52 ÷45 so it may not be 100% accurate. Yes see my argument is that I am at my place of work at 8am and don't leave until 5pm. I am told this by my employer so those are my working hours. I suppose my question is ultimately, in a legal sense should I be paid for all of the time I am at my place of work in a professional capacity (ready and willing to work) I do have a base of operations and then we go off to where we need to go but I go to the same branch/hub everyday. I work monday to Friday but I do go on call once a month for 7 days solid.. I think I need to speak to ACAS again as you say...

[S3dave]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

If you get 20 mins unpaid break then you are only paid for 8 hours 40 minutes per day. 43 hours 20 minutes per week. I make that just shy of £7.60 per hour.

The biggest problem you have is that you essentially have no rights. If you complain it's likely you'll suffer either in the sense they'll screw you hoping you leave or actual termination. Many places of employment run on the mantle "do as you are told or feck off"

M1

NO see that's my point I am not paid for 43hrs 20 mins. I am only paid 39hrs a week so 7hrs 40mins a day although I am at my place of work for 9hrs..

- - - Updated - - -

I don't understand how it can be acceptable that I have to be at my place of work for 45 hours a week but only paid for 39..

[Amethyst]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

As you are salaried, then unless you were quoted an hourly rate, you're going to be pooped if your hourly rate works out over minimum wage ( £7.50 an hour ) - which as you are working 43 hrs 20 mins a week it does ( just). If you were only working your contracted 39 hours ( and actually at work 39 hrs 20 mins ) you'd be being paid £8.44/hr. So minimum wage wise they are okay legally if not morally/ethically/contractually.

So forgetting the amount of pay side, you're contracted to work 39 hours but are being told to work 45 hours, which isn't what you signed up for when you took the job.

Did they discuss hours of work or anything when you were interviewing - I know you said they said 40 hrs originally.

[mystery1]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

That's how employment markets work when people have no choice.

1. Accept you can't really do much.
2. Complain and suffer.
3. Leave.

I chose option 2 and was ultimately got rid of. I had no responsibilities to consider so chose not to grin and bear it. I also had over 2 years service so had "rights".

You are correct they shouldn't get away with what you have said. There is virtually nothing you can do in your position.

M1

[Amethyst]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

Sadly, I concur, it's a complete arse. It already sounds like it's a culture in the firm you are working for to just accept these things and get on with the job It's wrong.

[S3dave]

Re: Working hours and “down time”

As you are salaried, then unless you were quoted an hourly rate, you're going to be pooped if your hourly rate works out over minimum wage ( £7.50 an hour ) - which as you are working 43 hrs 20 mins a week it does ( just). If you were only working your contracted 39 hours ( and actually at work 39 hrs 20 mins ) you'd be being paid £8.44/hr. So minimum wage wise they are okay legally if not morally/ethically/contractually.

So forgetting the amount of pay side, you're contracted to work 39 hours but are being told to work 45 hours, which isn't what you signed up for when you took the job.

Did they discuss hours of work or anything when you were interviewing - I know you said they said 40 hrs originally.

Ok so sounds like I'm screwed on the financial side but I'm not to worried about that for now. I was not told any hours of work just 40hrs a week then the day before I started I phoned to ask what time they wanted me at work to which they said 8am and I didn't finish till 5pm. Then I was told that that is the hours...