'Secrets of the Shoplifters' channel 4

[Monzter]

Has anyone seen this? It was on channel 4 last night about 10pm, I'm not sure if it's a series or just a one off. But if anyone did see it what are your thoughts? It is available on 4OD if anyone is interested.

It recorded security guards and shoplifters and the fall out when inevitably the two meet. While I cannot condone stealing at all I was genuinely shocked by the attitudes and behaviour of some of the security guards.

It showed a couple of people who are 'career' shoplifters and stole to order as well as those seasoned in shop lifting, and how technology and the security guards caught them. I was shocked though at the methods used, and the way the guards treated someone suspected of shoplifting, not actually caught, just suspected. Grabbing peoples arms, pushing, restraining techniques, grabbing bags from people, swearing and abusive language.

One lady was chased down the street and her bag forcefully ripped from her hand, how is that in any way legal? No one even asked her to turn the bag out, they were shouting and balling and when brought back to the store put in a 'holding cell' where the guards refused to let them out until they told them where they'd 'stashed' the 'stuff'.

It did transpire that they hadn't left the store with anything not paid for, but had put some items down the side of a photo booth after walking around with them. It was suspected that this was a 'stash and grab' technique where they return later for the goods. But as they had not actually done anything this seriously worried me.

If a security guard asked me to turn out my bags, or produce receipts for goods, in a polite and professionally manner I would comply. I might not be happy to be thought if as a shoplifter but I'd be more than happy to prove my innocence. However if I was chased down the street and my bags grabbed then manhandled, I would fight back, of course I would! It would seem though that when that happens you are restrained on the floor and locked up in the holding cell for your trouble.

Their overall attitude was awful IMHO. Phrases like 'Go on!! Nick it' and their general lack of regard for those that actually bought things one guy even said 'Oh Bugger, he's bloody paid for it, damn!' or words to that effect. That's just unprofessional.

Anyway this bits just to start us off, I do have other bits I want to say about it but...........

What do the other beagles think about it?

Monz :tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[teaboy2]

Re: 'Secrets of the Shoplifters' channel 4

Well as it turns out, the woman who put the goods down the side of the photo booth had not committed an offence. Therefore when he grabbed her bag off her, he was committing a criminal offence (mugging is the word that comes to mind) he the committed a further offence for holding her against her will. The onus is on them to proof your guilt not on the accused to prove their innocents. Innocent till proven guilty. I fi had been that woman i would have demanding the police arrested him for theft and holding her against her will.

Hell i haven't done any kicking boxing for over ten years, but if that had been my mother he'd crabbed the bag off he'd have felt the full force of a round house to the side of the face and would of been on his back out cold without a clue what had happened to him. After all a member of the public would have seen it as a mugging and act accordingly by giving the idiot what he deserved.

Off course i do not condone shoplifting but after watching that program its clear if they have only the slightest suspicion they will accuse you, man handle you and hold you against your will, even if they have no hard evidence you had actualy done anything. And it's clear from the show, that they a willing you to shoplift. Its like they get a high from it.

What disturbed me even more is one of them had a pair of handcufts.

What surprised me most, is that if it was a 1 off program, then were was the mention of RLP and there victims?

[enaid]

Re: 'Secrets of the Shoplifters' channel 4

On the fence I am on this matter.
I know what you mean about grabbing the ladies bag did seem a bit OTT.
On the other hand though if I was trying to do my job and got abuse like the European guy was coming out with I would be arrested for murder not just mugging.
Let's not forget this is tv and we only saw the snippets they wanted us to see, maybe if we saw the full picture it would be a little tamer perhaps.

[Monzter]

Re: 'Secrets of the Shoplifters' channel 4

Yes, I can sort of see both sides.

I would have a problem with a police officer manhandling me and snatching things out of my hands with no warning, never mind someone not in uniform and with no idea why they were doing it.

I also totally agree that the guys are just doing a job, and they have to stop people taking things and sometimes they'll need to get physical doing that. The ones who went out with full intentions of stealing to sell on, also had no intentions of getting caught and would have legged it into the distance with half a chance. They did have to put up with abuse, physical and verbal. Like one of them said, they don't have stab vests etc and they are at risk of injury.

It still is worrying though that you can be treated like that when they have no proof like Teaboy said, innocent until proven guilty. I have picked up stuff and wandered round with it, putting it down and picking it up again(usually in an effort to decide if I really need it lol) but would never entertain stealing something. I would lash out if grabbed, or if someone attempted to grab my bag out of my hand, thinking I was being mugged, and I would pursue it with the law if I were treated like that.

I can see that it probably has been sensationalised too, with them showing what they wanted us to see, but tbh the leaning of the film seemed to me to be towards the security guards slightly. I was shocked that they could restrain people and chase the, search them against their will etc, without police presence. I thought only the police could do that.

It brought to mind the guy who was killed by a security guard (by accident) whilst being restrained. I'll try and find the link.
The link is on this site somewhere else, I can remember reading it, I just can't remember where! Found this on google.

Security man killed shoplifter: Guard 'choked him to death over £35 perfume' | Mail Online
Thanks for your answers

[bluebottle]

Re: 'Secrets of the Shoplifters' channel 4

I saw this programme and was horrified by what I saw. Speaking as both a retired policeman and former retail worker, I have seen shoplifting from both sides, so to speak.

The security personnel featured in the programme were completely out of control and if the SIA does not revoke their licences (if they hold an SIA licence, that is) I would be very surprised.

I have witnessed security staff snatching bags from shoppers or grabbing their wrist and trying to forcibly take a bag from them. That is, at best, Assault with Intent to Rob and, at worst, Attempted Robbery or Robbery. It is also Battery. Searching of a shopper's bag by anyone other than a police officer, in those circumstances, is illegal. Security guards have no power or right to do so, despite their howls of, "We have a Common Law right." The answer to that one is, "Sphericals!" There is no such right.

A security guard can only use reasonable force to detain a person who has committed an offence. This does not extend to grabbing them by the throat in anger, as one security guard was seen doing. Detaining someone against their will without lawful reason, is both a criminal offence and a civil tort known as Unlawful Detention.

The security guard who was seen with a pair of rigid handcuffs raises the questions, "How did he get hold of these when there are restrictions on their supply?" and "Why did the police return them to him having previously confiscated them from him?" The answer to the first question is that he probably lied to the supplier about his status. Rigid handcuffs, if not used correctly, can cause serious injury. The answer to the second question is that he was probably told by the police not to carry or use them, but he decided to ignore what the police told him. There has been a case of this in Plymouth and the security guard has been warned he will have them confiscated and, if necessary, made the subject of a forfeiture order if he is seen on duty carrying them openly again.

In answer to Montzer's comments, no, security guards cannot do what they said they could in the programme. They have no more power than the man or woman in the street. The law gives powers of search to law enforcement officers (including police) only and for good reasons.

When the security guard said, "If we get it wrong, we can lose our jobs," my answer to that was, "That's not the only thing you can lose, matey."