Transgender primary student 'confusing'

[PAWS]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4122...dent-confusing

This story has sent me on a wild rant!
I will admit that I have never brought up a child but when it comes to so called ‘Christian values and hypocrisy’ I am the ‘go to’ woman!
Can I ask this? Which is the better parent; one that allows a child who is confused and unsure of his sexuality to be free to express themselves or one that will not bother to explain to a child that some people are not sure of their sexuality and there is nothing sinister in a boy wearing a dress or whatever if it helps him discover his true identity.
These f’n narrowminded gobshites are not preparing their child for the real world. A world where free expression and different principles should be respected and not be feared. Jesus and his disciples wore ‘frocks’? When their child sees the regulation portrait of Jesus does he go into a tail spin?
This sort of attitude was responsible for thousands of men being shoved out of the daylight simply because they could not be themselves in public. These Christian values were responsible for men being sent to prison, sectioned under draconian laws and forced to undergo barbaric ‘cures’! In far too many cases it resulted in suicide -all because of ignorance.
Can anyone show me a person who suffered because they saw a chap in full drag? No, but I bet we can all name someone who suffered because of these twisted un-christian values.
Bravo to the school. These schools produce adjusted tolerant children not the damaged, repressed wrecks churned out by the Christian institutions of my childhood.

[EXC]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

The parent's justification for removing their son from the school is because he is ''confused as to why the child at the Church of England School on the Isle of Wight dressed as both a boy and a girl''.

I wonder how utterly bewildered the boy is now by his parent's decision to remove him from school because of it?

[Amethyst]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

Ridiculous. The kids parents need more education.

That school that's changed uniform so everyone has to wear trousers has got it wrong too. Uniform rules should be for ' pupils' regardless of sex and be skirt or trousers, shirt, tie, blazer and the child allowed to chose what they want to wear within the guidelines. The point is to be smart and ( it seems) advertise the school. Think they justified the change to just trousers because some pupils had their skirts too short - so... enforce length rules properly - since beginning of time school skirts have been hitched up , rolled over etc to suit fashions of the day - changing to trousers only is a cop out imo.

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

Interesting, however I just wonder how many 6 year olds have enough understanding to know what gender is about never mind how they interpret their own gender?

[Amethyst]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

I don't think gender should be defined as to whether you wear a skirt or trousers anyway. Tough to move away from that mindset but it needs to start somewhere.

I remember my secondary school started allowing girls to wear trousers, big outcry at the time lol ... as I recall I went to full length floaty skirts instead of standard straight knee length because I didn't like wearing trousers but liked being able to cover my legs lol. Irrelevant, just remembered that I got away with it for ages after the trousers allowance came in.

[PAWS]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

Interesting, however I just wonder how many 6 year olds have enough understanding to know what gender is about never mind how they interpret their own gender?

Now that is a good point – Many things, including religion and prayer are explained to children in a way that they understand. I am sure all parents have had to explain complex issues to their children such as how their new sibling is going to come out of mummy’s tummy. Explaining ‘Holy God’ being everywhere and knowing your thoughts is another tricky one! In comparison, I think telling a child, quite calmly and without drama, ‘that little boy is not sure if he wants to dress up as a boy or a girl but he is still a normal child’ cannot be too hard. They could point out that in play groups many girls will play with boy’s toys and little boys often run around pushing a dolls buggy. No need to go into the whole gender thing. To be honest many ‘experts’ struggle to comprehend, never mind explain, what determines our preferences or indeed sexuality. The main thing is not to imply there is anything dark or morally wrong with the issue.
Kim Jong-un nor Trump have never (to my knowledge!!!) dressed in women’s clothes but I find them far scarier and offensive than Grayson Perry or Eddie Izzard.
What will they do if their 6-year-old happens to see a gang of women on their way to a hen night! He will think he has landed in Sodom and Gomorrah

[PAWS]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

A girl in our school -Convent with regulations on skirt length -had been badly burned and had scar tissue from her neck down. She asked if she could wear something that covered her legs and was told no! Now would any of us be ‘damaged’ just because she was allowed to cover her scars?
What about ‘tomboys’. Always in films such as ‘To kill a mocking bird’ and portrayed as normal and ‘cute’. Bit sexist saying boys cannot do the same thing.

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

I don't think gender should be defined as to whether you wear a skirt or trousers anyway. Tough to move away from that mindset but it needs to start somewhere.

I remember my secondary school started allowing girls to wear trousers, big outcry at the time lol ... as I recall I went to full length floaty skirts instead of standard straight knee length because I didn't like wearing trousers but liked being able to cover my legs lol. Irrelevant, just remembered that I got away with it for ages after the trousers allowance came in.

I agree gender is not defined by the clothes you wear, but would a child of 6 really understand their feelings properly as all behaviour is a result of learned behaviour whether it be external or internal influences. Now given that would other children be able to understand the reasons behind why others may dress in clothing that is against that they have been taught is correct? Would it not lead to a degree of confusion for the child?
When the child grows to say teenager years and they have an independent voice/view then the choice should naturally be theirs to make as to what, how and who they are.

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

Having a grandson of this age who has an older sister and has been brought up with only a female influence in the house, has led him to play will girl directed toys, which has now become a major problem for him now that he has been mixed at school with boys. He is regularly teased and bullied because he plays with the girls toys at school and would rather play with the girls than the boys, now is this a result of him not being sure of who he is or is he innocent here and been influenced by that that he has been brought up around? Either way it has now made him a very distraught little boy who does not understand why he is the victim of bullying?

[warwick65]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

Just to split hairs with PAWS and I am sure it was unintentional
gender and sexuality are two different things although I also suspect that some people, unhappy with their sexuality believe it is a gender issue i.e. I am a man attracted to men therefore I should have been a woman.

I have a friend with two children , boy and girl yet the boy is sometimes seen in a dress and has long hair, sometimes loose , sometimes braided
Quite frankly , as long as she is a good parent, who bloody cares

It , I think always will be a controversial area, for every successful gender reassignment the press will tell us of someone who was unhappy after the surgery. Maybe this is more to do with the fluidity of human sexuality and maybe even gender identity, or is it because some people are too keen to stamp labels on us, or are we too keen to label ourselves.

Now where is my soapbox

[Amethyst]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

It will be a gradual change of course as attitudes change and children aren't told that girls wear pink boys wear blue etc anymore. think the reaction to these parents removing their child rather than helping him understand his confusion shows that things are changing and they are in the minority.

[Onestepatatime]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

Or is it that the minority speak up and the majority just say little?

[warwick65]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

All depends who you listen to - the DM may tell you these parents are part of the silent majority who have been terrorised into silence by us violent lefties who will not be happy until civilisation as we know it fails.

Well they are almost correct - I am not violent though

[PAWS]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

I can see what you are saying but I am inclined to go with Aristotle - ‘give me the boy until he is 7 and I will give you the man’.
My argument is not about determining a child’s sexuality at age 6. This young chap may eventually change sex or he may, on reaching puberty decide he prefers being a boy. He may be heterosexual. He may be gay or a transvestite. We do not know but to suppress him now could result in a very damaged individual. I just think that allowing a child to express themselves without fear or ridicule is vital as long as he is not disruptive or abusive. I also believe that the child of those parents protesting will also grow up with the impression that any deviation from the prescribed and narrow path is wrong and that he too will suffer long term issues as a result.
The ’essentials’ we learn as children be it table manners, language, religious beliefs and I am afraid hatred and bigotry are ingrained from a terrifyingly early age. I just think that teaching tolerance and taking the time to explain those that are different are not to be feared or bullied could go a long way in creating a better society.
Many of us will have seen Children hurling abuse and even rocks at other children of a different faith in Northern Ireland. Children as young as 4 being thought to hate those who are perceived as strange and odd but in essentials are just the same.

[warwick65]

Re: Transgender primary student 'confusing'

I can see what you are saying but I am inclined to go with Aristotle - ‘give me the boy until he is 7 and I will give you the man’.
My argument is not about determining a child’s sexuality at age 6. This young chap may eventually change sex or he may, on reaching puberty decide he prefers being a boy. He may be heterosexual. He may be gay or a transvestite. We do not know but to suppress him now could result in a very damaged individual. I just think that allowing a child to express themselves without fear or ridicule is vital as long as he is not disruptive or abusive. I also believe that the child of those parents protesting will also grow up with the impression that any deviation from the prescribed and narrow path is wrong and that he too will suffer long term issues as a result.
The ’essentials’ we learn as children be it table manners, language, religious beliefs and I am afraid hatred and bigotry are ingrained from a terrifyingly early age. I just think that teaching tolerance and taking the time to explain those that are different are not to be feared or bullied could go a long way in creating a better society.
Many of us will have seen Children hurling abuse and even rocks at other children of a different faith in Northern Ireland. Children as young as 4 being thought to hate those who are perceived as strange and odd but in essentials are just the same.

And we all know about the ancient Greeks and the older man younger man thing :-)