A little more forward thinking

[enaid]

this is progress???????????

[PAWS]

Re: A little more forward thinking

You know something? I never really thought about this. Cracking point. It is not just the fact that someone would lose their job but it is a bit insulting to discover that a job you do, an essential job that you are proud of doing well is seen as a degrading punishment.

[Guest]

Re: A little more forward thinking

Something that occurred to me when I heard about this, was that it appears to be in direct conflict with current stipulations. In order to obtain JSA at present, a claimant has to demonstrate that (s)he has actively been seeking work on a full time basis (40 hours a week). If someone can spend x amount of hours cleaning the streets and not seeking work, then surely the Government are admitting that 40 hours of seeking work are not needed in order to qualify for the benefit? Alternatively, I wonder whether the claimant has grounds to challenge this idea? After all, when compelled to undergo this work, the claimant is being deprived the opportunity to seek real work, thus being placed at a disadvantage to those who are not required to do this meaningless task.

[des8]

Re: A little more forward thinking

, the claimant is being deprived the opportunity to seek real work.......................this meaningless task.

Disagreement coming!!!!!
Street cleaning IS real essential work.
If we did not have street cleaners, bin men & grave diggers our society would collapse even faster than if we didn't have bankers

[Guest]

Re: A little more forward thinking

The problem is, that whenever you get people forced to do unpaid work, the task is completed half heartedly. Those supervising want an easy ride so don't really want the conflict of arguing with the workers every 5 mins.

I agree that street cleaning is a meaningful task-Perhaps I should have explained myself a bit better. Unpaid workers are not professionals, they are forced to do the work, against their wishes. Any work they do complete will be done so with no pride, care or accountability.

[Kati]

Re: A little more forward thinking

There are lots of activities that jobseekers have to do now in order to be 'eligible' for benefits. Mandatory Work Activity being one of the worst IMO

30hrs a week while still 'actively seeking work' and attending the job centre whenever they want you to. If someone doesn't want to 'work' for a specific organisation they had better have a da*n good reason for it too - or face sanctions (and still have to do it)

[Guest]

Re: A little more forward thinking

The mandotary work thing to me is a very good idea. Being involved in the voluntary sector for many years I know they are always short handed, what better way to show a future employer a work ethic. Many workers at my credit union have used the reputation gained for honesty, and taken advantage of the free training available through the voluntary sector to go onto successful careers on the financial sector. All work has value, even if it is just that it keeps the person in the working habit,and fills holes on a prospective CV.

[Kati]

Re: A little more forward thinking

I'm not saying voluntary work is bad ... but I know of at least one person who was volunteering with three seperate groups already (different days/weeks etc...) and was told he had to stop doing that and do MWA instead The job centre wanted them to work in a warehouse instead of volunteering for a local community project. That's why I have a problem with it!

I do think that for someone who has no recent experience, or lacks motivation etc... it can be a good thing (but for those that go above and beyond what in needed already, there should be exceptions)

[des8]

Re: A little more forward thinking

Mandatory work ................. I have no problems with that as long as it is paid at the going rate.
If the local river needs cleaning, fine, no reason why those claiming benefit shouldn't do it, but they should be paid the going rate.
It is not "community service" imposed as part of a court punishment.
If they want to work in a charity shop as volunteers, fine, let them as part of their claim.
But don't force claimants to work as cheap labour for councils or private businesses.

[Guest]

Re: A little more forward thinking

Mandatory work ................. I have no problems with that as long as it is paid at the going rate.
If the local river needs cleaning, fine, no reason why those claiming benefit shouldn't do it, but they should be paid the going rate.
It is not "community service" imposed as part of a court punishment.
If they want to work in a charity shop as volunteers, fine, let them as part of their claim.
But don't force claimants to work as cheap labour for councils or private businesses.

Have to say I do not agree. Not saying that people should starve or that any benefit should be negatively effected but the important thing is the work. More importantly showing a future employ er that you are eager to do it.
I come from a generation where people took apprenticeships for years and years on little or no money, in the hope that at the end of it there would be a job which would enable them to start and support a family.
The situation now is that everyone thinks that these things are thier entitlement irrespective of any effort they put in.
Enforcing these people to get off their backsides is a huge step in the right direction IMO.

[des8]

Re: A little more forward thinking

Andy. we will have to agree to disagree,
Your last post contains sweeping statements which would not look out of place in certain newspapers.
I am now ceasing to comment on this thread .

[Guest]

Re: A little more forward thinking

Andy. we will have to agree to disagree,
Your last post contains sweeping statements which would not look out of place in certain newspapers.
I am now ceasing to comment on this thread .

yes probably best,I had the same thought about the sweeping statements in your post,although probably different publications.
Nothing wrong with having different opinions of course.

[Guest]

Re: A little more forward thinking

I'm not saying voluntary work is bad ... but I know of at least one person who was volunteering with three seperate groups already (different days/weeks etc...) and was told he had to stop doing that and do MWA instead The job centre wanted them to work in a warehouse instead of volunteering for a local community project. That's why I have a problem with it!

I do think that for someone who has no recent experience, or lacks motivation etc... it can be a good thing (but for those that go above and beyond what in needed already, there should be exceptions)

|Sorry Kati I missed this post.


I see your point here and this is disgraceful, in Tameside the third sector coalition has the power to ensure that its members(voluntary agencies ) are able to accredit work done by volunteers who are claiming JLA.

I don't think that it is a matter of diminishing the worth of the unskilled worker, more it is about finding a job which can be done by any claimant, and of which there is a need of in the community. I dare say that anyone who took on the job of street cleaning under this scheme would be able to apply for the position on a permanent paid basis if they so wished should the position become vacant, if they did they would have the advantage of some experience to offer.

[Kati]

Re: A little more forward thinking

|Sorry Kati I missed this post.


I see your point here and this is disgraceful, in Tameside the third sector coalition has the power to ensure that its members (voluntary agencies ) are able to accredit work done by volunteers who are claiming JLA.

I don't think that it is a matter of diminishing the worth of the unskilled worker, more it is about finding a job which can be done by any claimant, and of which there is a need of in the community. I dare say that anyone who took on the job of street cleaning under this scheme would be able to apply for the position on a permanent paid basis if they so wished should the position become vacant, if they did they would have the advantage of some experience to offer.

and then on the other hand you have this - http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...acement-labour

A man who was let go at the end of a temporary job has been ordered by the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) to work for the same firm for six months without pay.

[Guest]

Re: A little more forward thinking

Yes it is an emotive subject. However it could be argued taht if they were recieving benefit they are in fact being paid, although not for doing nothing.

Working the odd few hours at the C U you get to meet a lot of people, and off hand I must know a dozen or so 18 to 30 rear old people(mostly male for some reason), sat at home living with mum, perfectly healthy, but they feel that the correct job to mach their particular skills has not yet shown up.

I am of the opinion that these people should be encouraged by whatever means to get out into society, not only for the good of the community but for their own good, their lives are passing by waiting for the X factor audition or watching loose women.