discussion

[Guest]

You have raised a very important and valid point, Tools.

The request for National Insurance Number aroused my suspicion straightaway.

I thank the point was that the DVLA would have contacted by post,

[Guest]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

Oh and the DVLA do not do fishing trips. In fact they do not do any kind of trips.

[bluebottle]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

Oh and the DVLA do not do fishing trips. In fact they do not do any kind of trips.

Are you saying they do not partake of any illicit substances? :grin:

As for you saying DVLA do not do fishing trips, attempting to obtain details of a defendant's defence is a fishing trip, is it not, albeit an illegal one?

[Guest]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

Are you saying they do not partake of any illicit substances? :grin:

As for you saying DVLA do not do fishing trips, attempting to obtain details of a defendant's defence is a fishing trip, is it not, albeit an illegal one?

You seem to think most things are illegal buebottle, unfortunately the actual enforcement agencies tend not to agree.

How exactly would requesting the OP's NI details be "obtaining details of the defendants defense", is part of his defense based on the numerals of his NI code ?

The OP needs of course to ensure this he is in fact dealing with the DVLA and it is not a scam by some third party, but I would not worry about supplying any details to the DVLa if this is who they are.

[bluebottle]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

You seem to think most things are illegal buebottle, unfortunately the actual enforcement agencies tend not to agree.

How exactly would requesting the OP's NI details be "obtaining details of the defendants defense", is part of his defense based on the numerals of his NI code ?

The OP needs of course to ensure this he is in fact dealing with the DVLA and it is not a scam by some third party, but I would not worry about supplying any details to the DVLa if this is who they are.

If by "enforcement agencies", you refer to civil enforcement companies, the dividing line between legitimate enforcement and breaking the law is very thin. Some civil enforcement companies and EAs sail extremely close to the wind on occasions. If, on the other hand, you refer to law enforcement agencies, there are, unfortunately, those within them who will push the boundaries or, indeed, cross the line. I have seen this happen within the police service and, also, in the case of Customs.

Obtaining details of defendants' defences is a known practice of DVLA. As their cases go through magistrates courts, the Criminal Justice system does not have provision, as the Civil Justice system does, for exchange of evidence. Any attempt by a prosecutor to obtain details of a defendant's defence is illegal. A defendant's National Insurance Number would be sought by the court following conviction, but only if an Attachment of Benefits Order or Attachment of Earnings Order were put in place by the court.

Tools has summed it up very succinctly. I, myself, have never come across prosecutors asking for details of a defendant's National Insurance Number. The OP needs to check this out with the DVLA.

[Guest]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

No bluebotte by enforcement agencies I mean the police

So exactly how would the NI number be relevant in the defence again ?

Sorry must have missed tools summing up the prosecutors case. I thought he was ensuring that the OP was in fact dealing with the DVLA and not a third party pretending to be. Perhaps I misunderstood.

[bluebottle]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

No bluebotte by enforcement agencies I mean the police

So exactly how would the NI number be relevant in the defence again ?

Sorry must have missed tools summing up the prosecutors case. I thought he was ensuring that the OP was in fact dealing with the DVLA and not a third party pretending to be. Perhaps I misunderstood.

You did. In more ways than one. Also, there are a number of enforcement agencies including the police, customs officers, health and safety inspectors, environmental health officers.

The NI Number is not relevant to the defence. I made the comment about DVLA's practice of trying their best to obtain details of alleged defendants' defences to highlight DVLA's practices as not being compliant with the law. The request for a National Insurance Number prior to hearing is not in accordance with Criminal Justice practices or procedures.

Tools has made a valid point in that there are a number of phishing emails doing the rounds at the moment. This is why the OP needs to contact DVLA to be sure -

a. it is, in fact, from DVLA; and
b. that the "requisition" is, in fact, genuine.

[Guest]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

Sorry finding it hard to keep track of your logic ? so I will leave you to it

[bluebottle]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

Sorry finding it hard to keep track of your logic ? so I will leave you to it

Seeing as you are more at home with Civil Law matters and DVLA matters are magistrates court cases, i.e. Criminal Justice, an area I have worked in and am familiar with, it would make sense for you to leave it.

[Tools]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

And after all that bickering I doubt the OP will return, well done both.

[Guest]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

And after all that bickering I doubt the OP will return, well done both.

Not really bickering on my part Tools. The OPs query was a simple one, the answer, to find out if the correspondence is legitimate and act accordingly.
I certainly did not seek to cloud the issue with personal agenda and paranoia relating to the behavior of government offices, nor does this help the OP in any way that I can see.

Perhaps some helpful intervention earlier may have stopped the thread being diverted into the usual anti establishment rant which this particular poster is so fond of, just a suggestion.

[Guest]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

Seeing as you are more at home with Civil Law matters and DVLA matters are magistrates court cases, i.e. Criminal Justice, an area I have worked in and am familiar with, it would make sense for you to leave it.

No not at all, no idea where you have worked BB, nor is it relevant.
The police investigate prospective illegality all the time, in doing so are they breaching the rules regarding evidence, after all they are looking into a possible defense are they not ? or are they just seeing if there is a case to be answered, and possibly saving everyone the trouble and expense of a hearing.

[wales01man]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

With the greatest respect to you 2 gentlemen.,You both have plenty of good advice on this site problem is in this thread that your opinions differ fair enough but to end up having what appears to me and maybe others a verbal fight detracts from the problem you and others are trying to help with.

Regardless of anyones expertise or past job you both have a vast knowledge please carry on inputting this into the forum ,Any OP or reader can take or ignore advice but when arguments ensue I for one would ignore both views.
As Tools says you may have driven the OP away lets hope if its the case they have digest all the info and moved forward to solving their problem.

[bluebottle]

Discussion DVLA

No not at all, no idea where you have worked BB, nor is it relevant.
The police investigate prospective illegality all the time, in doing so are they breaching the rules regarding evidence, after all they are looking into a possible defense are they not ? or are they just seeing if there is a case to be answered, and possibly saving everyone the trouble and expense of a hearing.

The rules of evidence and procedures in magistrates courts and Crown Courts are completely different to that in the Civil Courts. If the police arrest someone, they are making an allegation that someone has committed a crime, not a civil tort. They then have to prove that allegation to a magistrates court or Crown Court beyond all reasonable doubt. As you will know, the burden in a civil court is on balance of probability.

In civil cases, both sides have to disclose the evidence they intend to rely on to prove their respective cases. In criminal cases, the prosecution has to disclose the evidence it has to the defence, but the defence does not disclose its evidence until the full hearing. There are also rules applicable to criminal cases that do not apply to civil cases as to when the prosecution must disclose its evidence. These are contained within the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) and other Criminal Justice legislation.

[Guest]

Re: 'Requisition' from DVLA for court

I haven't been driven away, but I did call the Swansea Magistrates court and spoke to one of the people in the Clerk's office.

He was really pretty relaxed about the whole thing, and said that NI number, phone number and DOB were all optional and could be left blank. He said that all they required was a signature and date on the form.

He also said that, in the event of a not guilty plea, I could request the case be heard at a Magistrates Court near to me rather than in Swansea.

So it would indeed appear that the DVLA are simply asking for information that they don't require for the administration of their case, but would just like to have.

Yes it really does not matter in the scheme of things, the DVLA is not a sinister organisation of people sitting around smoke filled rooms plotting to ensnare the unsuspecting motorist, despite what some wold tell you. They handle hundreds of cases like yours every day, they get a query and refer to a procedure and issue a template letter, simple as that, they neither have the time or the inclination to do anything else, paper pushers really.
Not to say that yo should not defend any allegations made if untrue of course,.