Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

[Guest]

Re: Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

[QUOTE=des8;461160]

1)Yes
2)No (they died about 10 miles from their destination)
3)CaptainLawrence Edward Grace "Titus" Oates
And I thought the discussion was about selfishness

NO I just thought that I had missed something and the expedition compliment survived as your earlier post suggests, thanks for clearing it up.

[lacs54]

Re: Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

[QUOTE=PAWS;461000]
We can never underestimate human fragility. Many people now believe that we would all consider suicide if faced with our own insurmountable or unbearable demon. ..How many of us can honestly say that we would rather rot away in a hospital bed than drift off in a morphine induced haze?.[/QUOTE
And - Debit is never worth taking a life over....Every soul deserves a listening ear...ALWAYS seek guidance never wallow in your own darknesses. Robin said
''I used to think the worst thing in life was to end up all alone.
It's not. The worst thing in life is ending up with people who make you feel all alone.''

he was like so many times insightfully and sadly right.
He has been part of my life since Cable TV in Canada 1972/3. So yes I will miss 'growing old' with him and learning from a compassionately gifted , humble and great man who spoke with EMPATHY many wise words if anyone cared to actually listen.

[PAWS]

Re: Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

The worst thing in life is ending up with people who make you feel all alone.''

Spot on lacs54. :okay:

I totally agree that a debt is not worth committing suicide over but unfortunately the pressure and terror inflicted by Debt collection agencies cause fatigue, stress and even physical illness. Add this to the feeling of failure and shame and it does not take long to slip into suicidal depression especially if you have to watch your family suffer. Bailiffs are terrifying but never underestimate the power of the ‘paper cosh’. Constant threats of legal action are ruining people’s lives and it is hard to live in fear of those court papers arriving.

We would see a lot more people committing suicide if LegalBeagles did not exist and that is a fact!

[lacs54]

Re: Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

''
pressure and terror inflicted by Debt collection agencies cause fatigue, stress and even physical illness. Add this to the feeling of failure and shame and it does not take long to slip into suicidal depression,,,’. Constant threats of legal action are ruining people’s lives and it is hard to live in fear of those court papers arriving.,....We would see a lot more people committing suicide if LegalBeagles did not exist and that is a fact!..##

OH YES totally agree the help I recieved from Milo Ploddertom and others WAS a life saver... the stress of 18 months of harassment, threats and court actions lead me to a very unsafe place . If some front desk employee and not a back desk fool had actually read the original rebuttal document that was sent in then the matter I needed urgent intervention in would never have come to crisis point.

[Reluctant]

Re: Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

Suicide can be selfish (as well as selfless) mainly self obsessed.
Maybe not wholly through personal choice.
It's a self sacrifice, often to the detriment of others to a lesser extent.
It can be spiteful or pitiful.
When one either needs to blot out others or becomes unable to engage well with others, then there is little left but to be so wrapped up in self and they all to often see no other way to gain comfort but to go for the end result.
In the main I think it must take a lot of bravery to follow through from the thought to the action.
Tried it once. Had been told that if you really want to die, then you'll feel no pain. ...or it won't matter.
It hurt, so I figure I'd wait and see if not following through was a mistake or a wise move.
Which is daft really because hindsight happens too often and gives no definitive answer.
Of those who I've known kill themselves (or be killed) , it's the families and close friends who suffer after the event and they do so due to their own types of selfishness.

Robbie Williams also had Parkinsonism. I wouldn't be surprised if that weren't induced by the drugs for bi-polar (if not other drugs prior to legal meds) He was far too intelligent and active a person to have been able to suffer the cruelties of that disease. I think he had every right to get out while he still was able to be able to make that choice for himself. A great loss for us but he's already given more than many in his lifetime.

I remain sceptical to the merits of making assisted suicide legal.
There are far too many vulnerable people, either sick of mind or body who could do better with being helped to live, but the economics and logistics to that can not be matched in reality.

I think there's probably something primal in our need to go die in peace. That will be inbuilt in our dna.
The senile, go for long walks back to the place of their childhood when they get the chance and could easily die en route if left unattended. We, 'the caring society' don't let that happen. We pack them in care homes for as many yrs as is viable and do so in order to be kinder.

[dogtired]

Re: Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

Have not really like to add anything to an emotive subject.
Others have added very well written posts.
As a retired nurse when I worked on a medical unit we admitted both ends of the spectrum.
Even something as innocent as too many paracetamol can cause lasting damage.
I personally know of someone, who worked on the same ward who had a "cold" she went to bed with two paracetamol and a " lemsip" .

They were found, fortunately and did recover but were very ill for some time, but what if they had not been found?
Another a young women with severe post natal depression, she tried to hang her self but was revived only to end up with severe brain damage.
She did not get the help she needed and a whole family left with that consequence.
Was that selfish?

[PAWS]

Re: Is Suicide a Selfish Act?

Reluctant, as you pointed out there are many ‘motives’ for committing or attempting suicide that are often more to do with ones frame of mind than outside influences. That is why some can overcome the most challenging trials while others crumble and give up. Many people are reduced to believing that they only thing they have power over is whether they live or die. When everything else has been taken away one can often feel ‘at least I have a choice whether I live with this burden or not.’ The choices or reasons for committing suicide are as varied as the lives of those who do take their own lives. A little thing like a smile from a stranger or a sharp word from a bus conductor can often have a huge impact when one is at the ‘tipping point’.

The one thing that has to be removed from our vocabulary is ‘shame’.Whether suicide is brave or cowardly is not for me to decide. I am alive and hope to be for many years. I have no idea what I face in the future and do not know if I will stand on that precipice. NONE OF US DO. No matter how sound of mind we believe ourselves to be, no matter how safe and secure our lives are,no matter how loved and cherished we feel –None of us know what trials we have to face in the future or how we will be affected by them. Many a*****les tell us we make our own luck. Well they can go in a sack with the people who say ‘you have to make time’ and ‘never a lender or a borrower be’. Then we should roll that sack off a cliff.

It is true that the friends and family of those who commit suicide suffer unbearable pain and guilt. In most cases those left behind did not know how vulnerable this person was or could not have helped ease their suffering. It is however often true that many who commit suicide have been let down by those they once trusted and loved. What makes me angry however is that many people do take their own lives because of the procedures and practices of organisations such as Creditors, educators and the health service. I am also angry that many old people are left alone to fester in poverty and loneliness. You made a very good point about society bundling people into care homes and easing our conscience by saying it is for their good!

I find that primary health care lets many down who would get through with medical help. I am not saying that drugs are the answer but it is your G P’s duty to look after your mind and body. I also think that we can all try to be a little more pleasant in our everyday dealings with our fellow man. We can be more aware of our friends and families and make more time to listen. After all, is it not a great compliment when someone says 'can you help me please’ but we must make sure that we are the sort of friend that people would ask for help.
I believe that we do have the right to choose whether we live or die at any time in our life but I also believe we have a moral duty to make life at least tolerable for our fellow man.