Electric Car

I test drove the new Mitsubishi electric car today. No I can't afford one Entry price is £29K minus a £5K government grant, so £24K. I felt like using up my lunch hour by pretending to be an interested punter

But they reckon it costs about £135 a year in electricity and you really can just plug them straight into the mains at home with an ordinary plug.

Also no road tax.

It drove very well, is smooth, they are all automatics apparently and accelerates nicely.

It is completely silent too.

I thought it was a great car.

Downside is cost and also it only runs for between 70-90 miles before needing a recharge 9depending on whether the lights are on, air -con is switched on etc).

Apparently some local authorties are already planning on installing charging plugs in expectation that this will take on.

[Caspar]

Re: Electric Car

A friend of our family is one of the world's leading authorities in this area. He's been trying to retire since he was 65, but is now approaching 80 and has such a vast knowledge built up that he is fairly unique - fascinating to chat to as you can imagine.

The thing that still really has to be cracked seems to be the batteries. They just HAVE to last longer for the cars to be viable for everyone.

I actually hold quite an interest in alternative energies as we do a lot of mmotorhoming all year round and don't stay on campsites, but in legal spots "wild camping." It's a fantastic way of life, but obviously electricity generation etc... becomes critical if you're away from any mains electric for 3 or 4 weeks.

Must be weird driving a silent car - very strange.

[Guest]

Re: Electric Car

It will not work. In fact, it cannot work with current technology and just how on earth (no pun intended) do they think all these cars will be charged up?

[Caspar]

Re: Electric Car

It will not work. In fact, it cannot work with current technology and just how on earth (no pun intended) do they think all these cars will be charged up?

They might work purely as town cars, but the cost would currently be prohibitive. Battery development is moving rapidly, especially with things like fuel cells, but again everything is still very expensive. Solar power is getting reasonably priced, but you still take forever to get your money back.

Until people can see they'll start saving money fairly swiftly I fear Cet that you're right.

Having said that - in our motorhome solar power is a very viable option and we can survive happily generating our own electricity during spring and summer. Winter becomes awkward and you have to have plenty of reserve battery space for the rainy days.

[Guest]

Re: Electric Car

The issue is quite simple. There is no benefit to be had by shifting the generating capacity from the car (via its internal combustion engine) to a power station, many miles away then having to deliver the power to charge the car.

The key thing to remember is that electricity (that is actual electrical energy that can do work, such as produce heat and provide motive power) cannot be stored. Unlike diesel, petrol or gas, which can be easily stored, electricity cannot. It must be generated and delivered at the precise moment it is needed. To reach consumers, electricity must travel from the power generating plant through miles of transmission and distribution lines until it reaches its final destination where it will be used – and it must be delivered, at the right current and voltage at the right time, every time, all the time.

By the way, a battery does not store electricity, a battery generates electricity. What they do is store potential energy, in the form of a galvanic cell consisting of different metals suspended in solution and include a conversion process to convert that chemical energy into electrical energy that can be used.

I wonder, with your motor home, how much energy is wasted lugging those batteries around just so that you can have enough spare capacity for the rainy days? Would it not be easier to use a generator to provide power? I suspect if you do the maths, you will find you have wasted far more energy than you think, just carting batteries around.

[Caspar]

Re: Electric Car

The issue is quite simple. There is no benefit to be had by shifting the generating capacity from the car (via its internal combustion engine) to a power station, many miles away then having to deliver the power to charge the car.

The key thing to remember is that electricity (that is actual electrical energy that can do work, such as produce heat and provide motive power) cannot be stored. Unlike diesel, petrol or gas, which can be easily stored, electricity cannot. It must be generated and delivered at the precise moment it is needed. To reach consumers, electricity must travel from the power generating plant through miles of transmission and distribution lines until it reaches its final destination where it will be used – and it must be delivered, at the right current and voltage at the right time, every time, all the time.

By the way, a battery does not store electricity, a battery generates electricity. What they do is store potential energy, in the form of a galvanic cell consisting of different metals suspended in solution and include a conversion process to convert that chemical energy into electrical energy that can be used.

I wonder, with your motor home, how much energy is wasted lugging those batteries around just so that you can have enough spare capacity for the rainy days? Would it not be easier to use a generator to provide power? I suspect if you do the maths, you will find you have wasted far more energy than you think, just carting batteries around.

We've got a silent generator as well! We actually only carry two leisure batteries which is the norm and a separate one for running the actual vehicle. Our two are kept topped up quite nicely by one solar panel which is sufficient for our needs and saves having to get the generator out much of the time. There's also the social side to consider as we like to camp in spots where if you bought a house you'd may hundreds of thousands +. As we say, live like millionaires on a paupers budget! Generators (even silent ones) can be antisocial in these places, and it takes nothing for one motorhome wild camping to give all the others a bad name, despite the fact that all the ones we know always walk round at the end of their stay and pick up all litter, theirs or not, and dispose of it properly leaving the place better than they found it.

The fact remains we still need to find an alternative to fossil fuels as they won't last for ever!

[seduraed]

Re: Electric Car

The situation is not simple nor is there ever going to be a single solution.
The first demonstration to extract co2 from thee atmosphere. There are possible oncoming technologies of increasing efficiency of sola PV panels by simultaneosly cooling them using solar thermal panelsthis increases the efficiencies. Other possibilities are based on reducing demand making things last longer not travlling unless necessary, after all a great many more administraive jobs can be decentralised . Other energy souces include deep thermal drilling to use the heat ofhe core, tidal power there is lots available in theuk. Nuclear power which despite the detractors can provide a base load .
FOr road fuel there are major problems , if the alternative generation electricity can be made cheaply enough then there is a space for electric vehicles.
Latest research is woking towards artificial fuels with promising reserch in using CO2 and solar power t create methane.

The long term solution is to reduce the world population to less than one tenth of its current level. This requires major societal changes and revolution but is the ultimately theonly solution.

[pallaz1851]

Re: Electric Car

Wow Seduraed!!! your last sentence is scarey!!!
Throughout history oblitreration of sects, nations etc have been tried........Wouldn't go along with that one at all........education (sex or otherwise would be better)

With regard to everyones right to drive, pollute etc., - I think it is certainly within mans invention to come up with the Hydrogen engine sooner than you think, plus we have just 'chucked' away another Great British invention with the cancellation of the 'jump jets' (you'll soon see the yanks adapt this one and claim it as their own)....not beyond imagination for cars to do the same therefore restoring the countryside and getting rid of the motorways..

With regard to the population China already demonstrates population control (rightly or wrong) India certainly needs to do the same along with Brazil et al......the rest of us should actually breed more...if you look at the figures for NZ/OZ/Canada they haven't enough population that's why they are allowing immigration (albeit selected....qualifications etc)

[seduraed]

Re: Electric Car

I'm not looking at compusion with womens sex education , clean water and old age pensions along with the provision of contraception and abortion then average family size drops rapidly .

[Caspar]

Re: Electric Car

There are other "limitless" forms of running an internal combustion engine such as vegetable oil etc.... In fact the first ever diesel engine was designed to run on peanut oil. The problem here is growing it in sufficient quantities to meet demand. Look what has happened to the price of vegetable oil since it was legalised as a fuel in cars for personal use up to 2500 litres a year.

[seduraed]

Re: Electric Car

veg oil is not viable to meet demand I'll see if I can ind the figures but itsnot go as a mass fuel my memory is that if we turn all the crops we grow into fuel we might just do it but that is without taking into account the amount of fossil fuel needed to produce current high yields.
We have almost certainly reached peak oil and are shortly going o reach peak coal . Once that occurs there is a declining level of fuel and inevitable price rises until alternative fuels are found or demand is reduced.

[Caspar]

Re: Electric Car

Don't bother looking them up, I've read them! As I said the difficulty is growing enough to meet demand.

Also for people reading this BEWARE PLEASE - veg oil only works in some diesels. It does NOT work in modern direct injection diesels, and can cause problems in the older ones (some fuel pumps can't take it), there arre lubricity issues and debate over whether it perishes the seals. Also it needs to be mixed unless you have a professional conversion job done.

If you've already knackered your nice new car by trying it - sorry!

[Caspar]

Re: Electric Car

The long term solution is to reduce the world population to less than one tenth of its current level. This requires major societal changes and revolution but is the ultimately theonly solution.

I think you must have had a sneak preview of tonight's Top Gear! You're not the new Stig are you?