I would rather make you laugh than cry but..........

[enaid]

I really had to mention the horrific crash yesterday that wiped out a complete family.
I know it's an every day thing, road accidents and the such, they are part of life.
This though made me so sad, I had to say something.
It was if I am not mistaken because of another fatal accident that this family were in a hold up when their car was hit.
Before you say a word about the driver of the HGV, I know he has been arrested on suspicion of dangerous driving, he was a foreign driver too.
He though will have to live with this forever, beit his fault or not.
I am also very upset for the rescue services that had to attend this accident and can not praise them enough for what they do. Something I do feel we take for granted sometimes.
Anyway I had to say this hope you don't mind, a very sad Enaid x

[Sapphire]

Re: I would rather make you laugh than cry but..........

Di I am so very glad that you have started this thread.
I'm sure all our thoughts and condolences go out to the relatives and friends of this young family who have perished in such terrible circumstances.
As you say the driver of the HGV will have to live with this for the rest of his life, but at least he is alive isn't he.
I'm sure I read somewhere that the rules for foreign drivers ie: hours of driving, speed governors etc are different for 'foreign' drivers, perhaps someone will enlighten us.
Perhaps this could start a 'debate'.

[scoobydoo]

Re: I would rather make you laugh than cry but..........

Yes I too thought how sad and what a waste. I think the baby was only 10 weeks old.

How distressing for all the relatives left to cope with all of this.

And yes I agree if it was due to tiredness or human error caused by driving for too long then it should be given more time by the police. Althogh I think they do regularly try and stop and check records of these drivers as much as they can.

[Tools]

Re: I would rather make you laugh than cry but..........

Without commenting on this particular incident itself, other than to say how very sad and tragic it is, some of you have asked about the regulations regarding driving hours, tachograph rules and enforcement of these. As many of you already know I work in the HGV transport industry and as such on occasion I am required to go out driving HGV's from time to time. I will post up the rules for drivers hours etc, these are Law across the whole of the EU and do not vary from country to country within the EU. I am not suggesting that these rules were broken on this occasion, but will also explain that breaches are commonplace wether it be a driver licensed in the UK or elsewhere.

On 11 April 2007, new European legislation (Regulation (EC) 561/2006) came into force changing many of the drivers’ hours and tachograph rules. The new legislation took account of the views of those industries that are affected by the amendments and balanced them with the overriding principles of road safety and fair competition(this being an important economic factor too).

Research shows that up to one in six serious crashes are caused by drivers falling asleep, and a significant number of crashes are caused by lack of attention which is also often due to sleepiness. This does not include other distractions such as mobile phones, sat navs etc.

The rules shown are in general for your typical HGV that you see on the road everyday, exluding any exemptions (and there are a lot). I have simplified the rules, as it does get quite complex depending on different circumstances.

Daily driving limit

The maximum daily driving time is 9 hours; for example:
Driving 4.5 hours Break 45 minutes Driving 4.5 hours or;
Driving 2 hours Break 45 minutes Driving 4.5 hours Break 45 minutes Driving 2.5 hours

This can be increased to 10 hours twice a week; for example:
Driving 4.5 hours Break 45 minutes Driving 4.5 hours Break 45 minutes Driving 1 hour or;
Driving 2 hours Break 45 minutes Driving 4.5 hours Break 45 minutes Driving 3.5 hours

Weekly driving limit
The maximum weekly driving limit is 56 hours, which applies to a fixed week
(The fixed week starts at 00.00 on Monday and ends at 24.00 on the following Sunday)
Two-weekly driving limit
The maximum driving time over any two weeks is 90 hours

As well as taking regular breaks, the driver obviously has to sleep/relax away from work/lorry these are classed as rest periods. A rest is an uninterrupted period where a driver may freely dispose of his time. Time spent working in
other employment or under obligation or instruction, regardless of the occupation type, cannot be counted as rest, including work where you are self-employed.

Rest periods
Daily rest periods
A driver must take a daily rest period within each period of 24 hours after the end of the previous daily or weekly rest period. An 11-hour (or more) daily rest is called a regular daily rest period.

To summarise, a driver who begins work at 06.00 on day 1 must, by 06.00 on day 2 at the latest, have completed either:
• a regular daily rest period of at least 11 hours; or
• a split daily rest period of at least 12 hours; or
• if entitled, a reduced daily rest period of at least 9 hours.

Regular daily rest: A continuous period of at least 11 hours’ rest.
Split daily rest period: A regular rest taken in two separate periods – the first at least 3 hours,and the second at least 9 hours.
Reduced daily rest period: A continuous rest period of at least 9 hours but less than 11 hours.

A break of no less than 45 minutes must be taken after no more than 4.5 hours
of driving. The break can be divided into two periods – the first at least 15
minutes long and the second at least 30 minutes – taken over the 4.5 hours.
Daily driving Maximum of 9 hours, extendable to 10 hours no more than twice a week.
Weekly driving Maximum of 56 hours.
Two-weekly driving Maximum of 90 hours in any two-week period.
Daily rest Minimum of 11 hours, which can be reduced to a minimum of 9 hours no more than three times between weekly rests. May be taken in two periods, the first at least 3 hours long and the second at least 9 hours long. The rest must be completed within 24 hours of the end of the last daily or weekly rest period.
Weekly rest A regular weekly rest of at least 45 hours, or a reduced weekly rest of at least 24 hours, must be started no later than the end of six consecutive 24-hour periods from the end of the last weekly rest. In any two consecutive weeks, a driver must have at least two weekly rests – one of which must be at least 45 hours long. A weekly rest that falls in two weeks may be counted in either week but not in both. Any reductions must be compensated in one block by an equivalent rest added to another rest period of at least 9 hours before the end of the third week, following the week in question.

All driving periods are recorded on a tachograph, older styles are a paper disc type. Newer units are paperless and all data is recorded onto a drivers digital tachograph card, similar to a credit card with a memory chip. Tachographs record the time of driving, rest periods, other work, speed and distance. A driver must use this by law.

People responsible for the enforcement of these rules are the Police and VOSA. A driver may be stopped at any time and his driving/rest records checked for compliance. This is a necessary inconvenience to a driver and is widely accepted throughout the transport industry to be vital not only as a safety issue, but also as a way of ensuring fair competition between companies.

However, due to many drivers/companies being paid per drop or run, the rules are very often broken and I do not mean the odd extra hour driving once or twice a week, I mean driving continually for days sometimes weeks with very little rest periods. This can be because of pressure from an employer or the drivers own greed. Obviously one car running into the back of another at 70mph is devastating, but for a fully ladened HGV weighing up to 44 tonnes travelling at a maximum legal speed of 56mph(and yes, even though set by speed limiters these are also often bypassed) you can imagine the outcome.

Even if a driver has taken their necessary rest periods tiredness can very easily creep up on you as a great more fatigue is experienced when driving a HGV. If a driver suddenly comes across standing traffic it is much more difficult to stop a 44 tonne HGV than it is a car. Add to that if the driver is not fully concentrating due to lack of rest, sometimes the driver may not even realise this until impact has occurred.

Sorry for the long rambling post, but I have tried to explain why the drivers hours and tachograph regulations are so important and also try make people aware of the increased fatigue that HGV drivers experience in comparison to a car driver. I have to say from my own experience I have been fortunate never to have had to go through what the driver did in this tragic event and hope I never do. He will have that on his conscience for the rest of his life, whether it be due to not taking adequate rest periods or simply an accident. Fortunately, the use of tachograph records helps take away some of the guesswork. His hours will be recorded for the Authorities to inspect and assess, the vehicle will be thoroughly examined for defects (something that also has to be done on a 6 weekly basis by the operator) and the maintenance records checked for that vehicle.

[scoobydoo]

Re: I would rather make you laugh than cry but..........

So if say for example a driver is stopped in this country and the driving hours have been exceeded but no accident has happened, I assume it would just be a fine?

If there is an accident involved then they would be subject to our interpretation of dangerous driving and tried and imprisoned in this country?

Years ago my Brother-in law was hit by an HGV lorry on a country road over taking a milk float on the brow of a hill. luckily the driver of the milkfloat was an ex-policeman and resucitated my Brother in law - but he lost the use of his arm( never recovered) and had other injuries

For some reason the CPS or police would not alow the tacograph evidence to be used in court ( not sure why ) but in the end his father had to use all his money to bring a private prosecution. They settled on the day of the hearing outside court.

But in the light ofthis accident you just tend to cut your blessings that he survived.

[Sapphire]

Re: I would rather make you laugh than cry but..........

Well the drivers been charged http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/M6-..._Silva_Charged

[Tools]

Re: I would rather make you laugh than cry but..........

So if say for example a driver is stopped in this country and the driving hours have been exceeded but no accident has happened, I assume it would just be a fine?

If there is an accident involved then they would be subject to our interpretation of dangerous driving and tried and imprisoned in this country?

The "official" answer is:-

Penalties for infringements of the drivers’ hours rules in Great Britain

Maximum fines
As contained within Part VI of the Transport Act 1968 (as amended), the maximum fines that
can be imposed by a court of law on conviction are as follows:
• failure to observe driving time, break or rest period rules: fine of up to £2,500 (Level 4);
• failure to make or keep records under the GB domestic rules: fine of up to £2,500 (Level 4);
• failure to install a tachograph: fine of up to £5,000 (Level 5);
• failure to use a tachograph: fine of up to £5,000 (Level 5);
• failure to hand over records relating to recording equipment as requested by an enforcement officer:
fine of up to £5,000;
• false entry or alteration of a record with the intent to deceive: on summary conviction fine of £5,000,
on indictment two years’ imprisonment;
• altering or forging the seal on a tachograph with the intent to deceive: on summary conviction fine
of £5,000, on indictment two years’ imprisonment; and
• failure to take all reasonable steps to ensure contractually agreed transport time schedules respect the EU rules: fine of up to £2,500 (Level 4).
Fixed penalties and deposits
Following the Road Safety Act 2006, fixed penalties and deposits are likely to be introduced during 2008. Infringing drivers with verifiable UK addresses will, in the most routine cases, be dealt with by means of a fixed penalty, which can be considered by the driver for up to 28 days. Drivers without a verifiable address will be asked to pay a deposit equal to the fixed penalty and further driving will be prohibited pending receipt of that payment. This is predicted to result in fewer court prosecutions. More serious and multiple offences will continue to be prosecuted through the courts.