• Welcome to the LegalBeagles Consumer and Legal Forum.
    Please Register to get the most out of the forum. Registration is free and only needs a username and email address.
    REGISTER
    Please do not post your full name, reference numbers or any identifiable details on the forum.

Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS :) :)

Collapse
Loading...
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS :) :)

    Wooohooo who said First RIght of Appropriation was pointless ?????


    PDF here http://fsahandbook.info/FSA/handbook...11/2011_13.pdf

    Annex A
    Amendments to the Glossary of definitions
    Insert the following new definitions in the appropriate alphabetical position. The text is not underlined.

    priority debt
    (in BCOBS) an obligation on the part of a consumer to make a payment:
    (a) where the remedies for a breach of that obligation potentially include seeking possession of, or seeking to exercise a power of sale in respect of:
    (i) the sole or main residence of the consumer (for example, an obligation to pay secured by a mortgage or charge in respect of land, an obligation to pay rent under a tenancy, or an obligation to make payment under a licence to occupy land); or
    (ii) the consumer’s essential goods or services (for example, an obligation to pay under a hire purchase, conditional sale or hire agreement that relates to, or an obligation to pay secured by a charge on, the consumer’s cooker, refrigerator, or the means to travel to work); or
    (b) where that obligation arises out of an order of the court, an Act or secondary legislation (for example, an obligation to pay council tax, child support maintenance, income tax or court fines); or
    (c) where that obligation arises under a contract for the provision of utility supplies (for example, water, gas or electricity).
    right of set-off (in BCOBS) any right of a firm, whether under a contract for a retail banking service or the general law, to set off or combine:
    (a) any debt due from a consumer; or
    (b) any debit balance on an account held by a consumer;
    against or with:
    (c)
    any sum payable by the firm to the consumer; or
    (d) any credit balance on an account held by the consumer; that has the effect of reducing, discharging or extinguishing the firm’s liability to the consumer or the credit balance on the account held by the consumer.

    subsistence balance
    (in BCOBS) any sum of money payable by a firm to a consumer or standing to the credit of the consumer in an account with the firm where that sum is needed by the consumer to meet essential living expenses or priority debts (whether owed to the firm or a third party).

    HANDBOOK TEXT CHANGES
    4.1.4
    G
    The appropriate information rule applies before a banking customer is bound by the terms of the contract. It also applies after a banking customer has become bound by them. In order to meet the requirements of the appropriate information rule, information provided or made available by a firm to a banking customer should include information relating to:

    (8) information about compensation arrangements in accordance with COMP 16 the terms of any compensation scheme if the firm cannot meet its obligations in respect of the retail banking service;

    4.1.4A
    G
    (1) This guidance applies to a firm only with respect to its communications and dealings with consumers where a firm has a right of set-off.

    (2) To ensure compliance with the appropriate information rule, the firm should:
    (a) (i) provide an explanation of the nature and extent of the firm’s right of set-off; and
    (ii) if the firm considers that it is entitled to exercise a right to set off or combine a debt due solely from a consumer, or a debit balance on an account held in the sole name of a consumer, against or with a credit balance on an account held in the joint names of that consumer and another consumer, also provide an explanation of that right to the consumers in whose names the joint account is held; in good time before the consumer is bound by the contract for the retail banking service. This information may be incorporated in the terms and conditions that apply to the contract for the retail banking service;
    (b) (i) on the first occasion that the firm proposes to exercise a right of set-off in its dealings with the consumer; and
    (ii) where appropriate, on any subsequent occasion that the firm proposes to exercise a right of set-off in its dealings with the consumer;
    provide general information in relation to the nature of the firm’s right of set-off and the generic circumstances in which the firm may rely on that right within a reasonable period before the firm seeks to exercise its right of set-off. The FSA considers that this information should be provided at least 14 days before the firm seeks to exercise its right of set-off. It may be communicated in a standard form of words and may be incorporated in another communication sent by the firm to the consumer; and
    (c) where it has exercised a right of set-off, provide prompt notification of this to the consumer. This notification should clearly identify the date that the firm exercised its right of set-off and the amount debited from the consumer’s account in reliance on that right.

    (3)
    The information referred to in (2) should be provided in plain and intelligible language on paper or in another durable medium.

    (4) In determining whether it is appropriate to provide general information under (2)(b)(ii), the firm should consider the period of time that has elapsed since the firm last provided that information under (2)(b)(i) or (ii).

    (5) Nothing in (2)(a)(ii) should be considered as expressing a view on the validity, enforceability or fairness of any right of set-off in relation to a joint account that a firm considers it is entitled to exercise.
    And the good bit

    Set-off
    5.1.3A
    G
    To ensure compliance with its obligations under BCOBS 5.1.1R and Principle 6, on any occasion where it proposes to exercise a right of set-off, a firm (other than a credit union) should, with respect to its dealings with consumers:
    (1) review the information available and accessible to the firm relating to the consumer’s account, on an individual basis, and estimate the amount of any subsistence balance;

    (2) refrain from seeking to set off or combine:
    (a) any debt due from, or a debit balance on an account held by, a consumer against or with that subsistence balance;

    (b)any debt due from, or a debit balance on an account held by, a consumer in a personal capacity against or with any sum of money payable by the firm to the consumer or standing to the credit of the consumer in an account held with the firm, where the firm knows or reasonably ought to know that:
    (i)a third party is beneficially entitled to that money or that the consumer is a fiduciary in respect of that money; or
    (ii)the consumer has received that money from a government department, local authority or NHS direct payment body for a specific purpose or is under a legal obligation to a third party to retain and deal with that money in a particular way.

    (1) If it becomes apparent to a firm after it has exercised a right of set-off that it has set off or combined a debt due from, or a debit balance on an account held by, a consumer against or with:
    (a) the consumer’s subsistence balance; or
    (b) money payable by the firm to the consumer, or standing to the credit of the consumer in an account held with the firm, that falls within BCOBS 5.1.3AG(2)(b)(i) or (ii);
    the firm should refund to the consumer the sum debited from the account of the consumer in exercise of the right of set-off unless it is fair not to do so.

    (2) If, in the circumstances referred to in (1), the firm does not provide a refund of the sum debited from the account in exercise of the right of set-off, the firm should be able to justify that it is fair not to do so and should consider taking other remedial action having regard to its obligations under BCOBS 5.1.1R and Principle 6.


    #staysafestayhome

    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps
    Tags: None

  • #2
    Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

    Amethyst when did this come into practice? There is a thread on the forum re right of set off and a business account which more or less covers this point.
    "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
    (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

      6 March most of it, some transition periods to Sept 11.

      Not sure it covers business accounts as yes that case did spring to mind while I was reading it...if its a Sole Trader a/c though would be worth pointing them in this direction.
      #staysafestayhome

      Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

      Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

        Originally posted by leclerc View Post
        Amethyst when did this come into practice? There is a thread on the forum re right of set off and a business account which more or less covers this point.
        The instrument was made on 24 Feb and it looks like it'll come into force on 6 March.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

          Any chance of having it all explained in Northern lass, failed 11 plus type terms please? lol

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

            Originally posted by enaid View Post
            Any chance of having it all explained in Northern lass, failed 11 plus type terms please? lol
            You'll have to ask Ame - she's the Right of Appropriation queen - actually I'd quite like an idiot's guide to it myself.

            Or maybe we could ask Frank Sinatra to sing it to us? Might make it more entertaining.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

              Basically it means t' banks can't tek thy brass leavin theur wiyaa' scran 'n bills 'n can't touch thy 'ousin benefits ta pay off debts.


              #staysafestayhome

              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                Sorry lol, will write up about this the lending code and FCA this after in PIL xxxx I want to put it on the homepage anyway
                #staysafestayhome

                Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                  Did you get that Nelly?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                    Tools version:-

                    " If thy ant got nowt an thy owes em owt, then the` cant tek wat ye ant got `n leave thi wiyout owt fer snap `n leccy or to pat t` coilman"
                    #staysafestayhome

                    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                      Originally posted by EXC View Post
                      Did you get that Nelly?
                      Course I did lol

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                        Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
                        Tools version:-

                        " If thy ant got nowt an thy owes em owt, then the` cant tek wat ye ant got `n leave thi wiyout owt fer snap `n leccy"
                        How common.

                        Ok thems the basics, now how do we get to put it in practice? do we still have to write or is it automatic ?

                        And thanks for the explanation xx

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                          Amethyst, I can't understand you, I feel like I'm blowing in the wind, lol!
                          "Family means that no one gets forgotten or left behind"
                          (quote from David Ogden Stiers)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                            Well this only covers right of set off, I did try arguing that bank charges were a form of set off and they should be billed seperately but they havent taken it on board, but have ordered 14 days notice of charges which is great news.

                            This right of set off, if you owe your c/card with same bank you have your wages and benefits paid into, the bank have to bear in mind what you need to use for essentials (and they have to base this amount on the CFS Trigger figures under the lending code now) and they can't take money if it puts you in debit (so cant if you are in your overdraft) and they can't take money given to you for a specific purpose - ie housing benefit or council tax benefit - but they can take job seekers etc as that is for general use (and as the old argument goes you choose to spend it on getting in debt etc)....so really people need to stop being so scared of giving the banks honest IE sheets if they are getting in poop else if set off does occur they will have the very minimum possible left for subsistence.

                            Also they have to tell you that they have the right to set off everytime you get a product with the bank before you sign up for it, and I believe which companies are linked together for this urpose. They also have to tell you right of set off might be considered at least 14 days before they do it, to give you cahnce to sort things out first and account for it...but they don't have to tell you 'we're going to take in on xx date' as obviously people could just remove their money...they do have to tell you as soon as possible after they have done it and give full reasons for doing it - and if you disagee and think they havent left you enough subsistence money then they have to repay you (again give them an IE sheet).

                            I'm sure people will moan about the banks knowing their business, but if it truely is a problem with them taking your food money and rent you really don't mind keeping them informed what you need to live on if it prevents the problem arising.

                            I think its brilliant as we have really really struggled to get banks to understand first right of appropriation (which is a common law right) and Nationwide just refused point blank to accept they were obliged to comply with FROA requests. Now we have BCOBS to throw at them if they try it on with people.
                            #staysafestayhome

                            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Right of Set Off changes to BCOBS

                              Originally posted by leclerc View Post
                              Amethyst, I can't understand you, I feel like I'm blowing in the wind, lol!
                              just don't land in a flaming snow drift or get a cat with a bell on!
                              #staysafestayhome

                              Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                              Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                              Comment

                              View our Terms and Conditions

                              LegalBeagles Group uses cookies to enhance your browsing experience and to create a secure and effective website. By using this website, you are consenting to such use.To find out more and learn how to manage cookies please read our Cookie and Privacy Policy.

                              If you would like to opt in, or out, of receiving news and marketing from LegalBeagles Group Ltd you can amend your settings at any time here.


                              If you would like to cancel your registration please Contact Us. We will delete your user details on request, however, any previously posted user content will remain on the site with your username removed and 'Guest' inserted.
                              Working...
                              X