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TEST CASE - Latest News

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  • TEST CASE - Latest News

    Unfortunately there is no significant news to report at this stage.

    Mr Crow, on behalf of the OFT, indicated that the investigation has not reached any conclusions at this stage. They expect to reach a provisional view - and communicate that provisional view to the banks - at the end of July. At this stage, Mr Crow could not state what the content of those provisional findings would be, nor the extent of those findings. As a result, we do not know if those findings can be provided to the judge in this case, due to the fact that there may be commercially sensitive information within those findings.

    Mr Crow did suggest, however, that those findings could be redacted, if necessary, and thereby allow them to be provided to the judge. Smith J. was keen to ensure that this information be made as public as possible, for obvious reasons.

    Although the judge has yet to give directions, it appears that the OFT will be reporting to the judge by way of letter on 24th and 25th July as to the position at that time. The biggest concern for the judge was that the OFT and the banks would reach some form of agreement as to a fair level and/or structure of charging and would therefore discontinue the current litigation. This would cause significant problems for the issue of historic terms as they affect thousands of cases currently on hold in the county courts. The judge was keen to stress that in his opinion, this test case was the best vehicle for determining the issues, rather than using test cases from a number of individual consumers. It appeared that both the OFT and the banks agreed with this.

    In respect of the appeal, the Court of Appeal indicated it could hear the appeal in July, but the OFT indicated that it was not in a position to start the appeal hearings at that time (although the banks were prepared to have the hearing then). As a result, an appeal window of late October to mid-November is the most likely time for the UTCCR appeal to be heard. Since we do not yet have a ruling in respect of historic terms for either UTCCR application or penalty charges at common law, it is not clear whether those issues will be heard at the same time. Having said that, I am of the opinion that the Court of Appeal will probably want to deal with all the issues simultaneously.

    Tom Brennan

  • #2
    Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

    Still no decision has been made in the latest part of the high court test case between the OFT and the Banks.

    The court has been hearing the OFT's submissions that certain clauses in historical (those prior to November 2007) terms and conditions may be deemed as penalty clauses.

    The Judge has indicated his intention to make a declaration on historical fees and their applicability under the UTCCR fairness principles as well as the penalty charges aspects. He expects this declaration to be made within the next three months.

    He has already made a decision that current terms may be assessed under fairness principles, and may not be deemed as penalties. The decision relating to the UTCCR is being appealed by the Banks.

    The Banks have also already indicated their intention to appeal the ruling made with regards historical terms. The appeals should be held at the same time and a window of end October beginning November has been put forward by the Court of Appeal. The Banks wanted the appeals to be heard seperately and this month as the Court of Appeal had agreed - however the OFT have indicated they are not ready for the appeal, and the Judge wishes all aspects under Appeal to be heard together.


    The Judge stated one of the reasons he is holding off on a declaration of the read over of his UTCCR judgement on current terms, to historical terms. as being technicalities of the wording in the declaration. He has concerns over the multitude of leaflets, charge guides and 'promotional literature', that may or may not be deemed part of the agreement.

    He is concerned that the county courts would have difficulties applying his declaration as it stands with banks claiming the leaflets price lists and guides are part of the T&Cs but not covered by the judgement, so hes just covering all angles for the good of the consumer.

    The banks are writing a proposed forumla of wording to give to the Judge by tomorrow, Thursday 10th July.

    He has also asked the OFT for a commitment to bring out the PCA by the end of July. As previously mentioned this should be submitted for redacting on or around the 24th July.
    #staysafestayhome

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    • #3
      Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

      Decision on historical charges to be delayed This decision which was due at the end of September will be delayed as Judge Andrew Smith is on extended leave.

      Source: A little bird
      Decision on historical charges to be delayed - The Consumer Forums

      No other details.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

        Could this be the little bird ? Legal Beagles - View Single Post - July 7th Hearing
        #staysafestayhome

        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

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        • #5
          Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

          .... its like a game of chinese whispers !! or the 'Chuckle Brothers ! "from me to you, from you to me, from me to you, from you to me" lol


          Bf xx



          Member of the Beagles £2 coin and small change savers clubs, both based in the Debt Forum

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

            I'm confused............I thought we were puppies??



            "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

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            • #7
              Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

              That's the thought that occurred to me AME

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                Tweet

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                  Introducing.........'Nick the Bird'





                  Last edited by Celestine; 17th May 2011, 22:02:PM.
                  "Although scalar fields are Lorentz scalars, they may transform nontrivially under other symmetries, such as flavour or isospin. For example, the pion is invariant under the restricted Lorentz group, but is an isospin triplet (meaning it transforms like a three component vector under the SU(2) isospin symmetry). Furthermore, it picks up a negative phase under parity inversion, so it transforms nontrivially under the full Lorentz group; such particles are called pseudoscalar rather than scalar. Most mesons are pseudoscalar particles." (finally explained to a captivated Celestine by Professor Brian Cox on Wednesday 27th June 2012 )

                  I am proud to have co-founded LegalBeagles in 2007

                  If we have helped you we'd appreciate it if you can leave a review on our Trust Pilot page

                  If you wish to book an appointment with me to discuss your credit agreement, please email kate@legalbeaglesgroup. com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                    What dates the appeal hearing again ?

                    If Justice Smith is back on 30th Sept - are we expecting historicals before the Appeals for currents ?
                    #staysafestayhome

                    Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                    Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

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                    • #11
                      Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                      28 October.

                      I would expect a decision on historicals before then. Tom reckons the judge may well be working on the judgment even though he's on leave. Actually Justice Smith and his clerk worked on for 2 weeks after all the courts borke up for the summer recess.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                        Okay so Judgement on Historicals needs to be between 30th Sept and 28 Oct really.

                        I very much doubt if J Smiths extended leave was without any folders.
                        #staysafestayhome

                        Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                        Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

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                        • #13
                          Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                          I was reading on MSE and it is now saying due to delays it's expected to be Nov 08 before it goes back to court.

                          Is it true the judge is still on holiday?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                            Until 30th September he is yes.

                            8th November...interesting if they have put the appeals back too. will have a scout on MSE.

                            ahhh that was before the date was set afaik

                            Originally posted by MSE article
                            A. At the moment there’s no exact date on when the appeal will take place yet during the July hearing it became likely it’ll be delayed until November 08. It seems the Court of Appeal was willing to hear the case in July and the banks were ready but the Office of Fair Trading needed more time.
                            Will check but think we are still looking at October 28th
                            #staysafestayhome

                            Any support I provide is offered without liability, if you are unsure please seek professional legal guidance.

                            Received a Court Claim? Read >>>>> First Steps

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: TEST CASE - Latest News

                              sorry I mean sometime in November 2008 is in the main write-up about Bank Charges.

                              Comment

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