Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[argentarius]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I still don't agree with the "opt in/opt out" comments.

Barclays are going to write to customers saying "here's the new deal; we've allocated you a Personal Reserve of £x; please tell us if you don't want it".

How hard is it to say "No, I don't want it"?

And, as I keep on saying, Personal Reserve isn't a new facility at all, despite what Barclays say. It's replacing a secretive shadow limit system, whereby people are allowed to spend a certain amount of money in excess of their overdraft limit, with an explicit system which the customer:

(a) knows about; and
(b) can opt out of.

I cannot see at all how that is worsening the situation.

Many banks already allocate an overdraft limit when an account is opened, and the customer can choose to opt out of that as well. IMHO it's no different.

Regarding Amethyst's comments about temptation, people who have no money currently often merely write guaranteed cheques. Nothing's changed except that customers in that situation will, if they chose to have a Personal Reserve, will get charged just £22 for the 5 days they are using it rather than £35 as a paid item charge. I don't see that temptation has increased hugely just because the customer knows it's going to cost them slightly less, and knows that there is an up-front declared limit on the size of the Personal Reserve.

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wish I'd had a secret shadow limit. :tinysmile_cry_t:

[Paule]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a secret Shadow limit



Its.........




wait for it......




its amazing.....




its £5

yes FIVE pounds.....

How useful is that....

Yippee...

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not a secet now though, is it? :tung:

[Amethyst]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lend us a fiver Peeks

[Amethyst]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is entirely within our discretion whether we
agree to make our borrowing services available
to you. Unless we do so, then (subject to any
payment buffers) any payments you make that
would take your personal current account
overdrawn will be returned unpaid, unless they are
Guaranteed Transactions.

Thats good IMO. HOWEVER, didnt Justice Smith say a returned DD wasnt a service (just a consideration to pay or not etc)and they couldnt charge a service fee for it - whereas a returned cheque could be deemed a service ? or am I fantasising

[LuggerBugs]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why would there be a difference between a returned DD and a cheque? The principal remains the same, surely?

[Ladidi]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did everyone notice something else as well that Barclays had said in their details for the reserve...



The spokeswoman added that customers would receive advice to move to a more suitable account if they repeatedly triggered the five-day Personal Reserve, at a cost of £22 each time.


So if you trigger this, how do they claim back what you have used? Will it be under the same terms as the overdraft facitlity, We are removing your overdraft faciltiy, please make sure you have enough funds in your account by this date otherwise you will incur charges for any payments you do not have enough money for?????

[Amethyst]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

most likely. I do actually think that that is a good thing - in that they will advise people who use the facility too much to the detriment of thier overall finances to move to another account. But same as OD it can be withdrawn on a whim of the bank and stack charges up. It does show a little consideration of peoples circumstances I guess but I suspect it will be milked until it really cant be repaid then they'll send in the DCAs.



Returned Cheques - actually require manual processing (ummm well they did in 1999 when I worked in Norwich & Peterborough Cheque Processing Dept lol things might have changed a tad since) Someone has to look at the cheque put it to the right account and enter details on puter then if its returned after representation which is auto on other banks puter it comes back cheques are fished out of storage and mailed back to cust. (this was 99 so shout at me if its all changeded) So I'd say that does have a cost.

DD's is a bomp on the puter.

[Ladidi]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree it is a good thing that they are now going to look at customers accounts and say hey you are susing your reserve too much, is there a problem/? Would help if we moved you away form this type of account? etc.. But what happens when they do this? Will they give them more support and find a way for customers to repay this over a period of time depending on their circumstances etc.

We all know when they take away the Overdraft facitlity they tell you this will happen on this date and this what you need to do etc...I believe the reserve can be an excellent feature, my concerns are what they trying or going to charge you to use this and the 5 day time frame and having to pay £22 each time..How many people will pay £88 each month to do this??? Not very the wealthy thats for sure, it will be the hard pressed making it even harder for them to help themselves. The time frames of 5 days need to be changed for this to be a success and the amount charged for the 5 days is way too much!! I think for this to work they can get away with charging £22 each time this facility is used if the time frame was per month, if that hurts their piggy bank too much, perhaps they could look at charging X amount for the amount used over the period of time each month - So if you use £50 they charge so much for using the £50 at so much per cent but at the end of each month the reserve has to be built back to what it should be like the overdraft.

Do you know what I mean?

[Amethyst]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

But what happens when they do this? Will they give them more support and find a way for customers to repay this over a period of time depending on their circumstances etc.

doubt it sadly.....they'll probably take it away at the most critical time and screw you over for as much as they can

[Froggy]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Argentarius, I think you are missing one point, whilst the shadow limits that exists in Barclays is now being formalised and made open, if someone OPTS OUT of the scheme and then does exceed a limit then they maybe informally changing their mind and opting in. So would you say that that they are giving an option? If you say NO then you "unofficially" then say yes then there is no option.

[Ladidi]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree with you Amethyst, At the end of the day they will say we are a BANK and our job is to MAKE money. If that menas TAKING YOURS then so be it!!

A lot can be done before this nice new facility is rolled out to its customers. It has a lot of merits I just believe it needs to be tweaked some more so that not only do the banks CONTINUE to make money, but they make it fairly and in proportion with what they are offering!!


The banks needs to remember, WITHOUT CUSTOMERS it CANNOT MAKE MONEY!!

If they all continue to proceed forward with their rip off ideas poeple will take their business elsewhere and then they will not be able to make anything, if any lessons need to be learned then our banks need to look back at all the queues of customers queing outside northern rock wanting their money to take their business elsewhere!!!!

[Froggy]

Re: Barclays cuts fees for overdrafts to £8 !!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you draw against a sum credited to your
account, such as a cheque, that is subsequently
returned unpaid, then if the reversal of that credit
causes your account to exceed any of its limits,
you will be charged a Reserve Usage Fee or
Returned Transaction Fee, as appropriate. You will
also be expected to make an immediate payment
into your account in order to bring it back within
your limit.

The above is on page three. I think what it is saying is that if you do not have a reserve and you use funds from a cheque that is subsequently returned you will be charged £8 if you are over your existing limit, So technically there is an overdraft fee BUT it is not £22 but £8 if you have opted out.

[argentarius]

Regarding Amethyst's comments (about the judge's view that bouncing DDs is not a service) I don't accept the distinction between cheques and DDs, if the judge's decision is indeed based on the different amounts of effort involved in bouncing a cheque compared to bouncing a DD.

The amount of work is completely irrelevant. Just to give a similar service, telephony services involve next to no effort on a marginal basis, just like processing a rejected DD through a bank's system. The cost in both cases is in providing the infrastructure.

Either not making a payment is a service, or it is not, IMHO. Cheques can't be one thing and DDs another.

Regarding Froggy's comment:

Argentarius, I think you are missing one point, whilst the shadow limits that exists in Barclays is now being formalised and made open, if someone OPTS OUT of the scheme and then does exceed a limit then they maybe informally changing their mind and opting in. So would you say that that they are giving an option? If you say NO then you "unofficially" then say yes then there is no option.

I'm not sure that I understand the point you are trying to make here.

At the introduction of Personal Reserve, customers have to decide if they want it or not - by opting out, if they don't want it, or by deemed acceptance (i.e. doing nothing) if they do want it.

If they subsequently change their mind, they can't do so "informally". They can only do so by telling the bank that they want to opt in, which presumably they will be able to do by phoning up at short/no notice.

I don't see how that is removing choice/optionality. There is the option at any point to switch the service on or off, as far as I can see.

Regarding your small font comments, Froggy, I agree. If you have opted out, you are charged a Returned Transaction fee of £8 not the £22 fee for Personal Reserve.

As far as I can see the stuff about immediately paying money into your account to make good the deficit is meaningless tosh. It's no different to making a guaranteed cheque payment when you don't have any money or overdraft facility - they have to pay it, and they will charge you £8.