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OFT WIN

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  • #46
    Re: OFT WIN

    would help if they deal with historic too and i agree much damage to reputtation has been done so how can that now de acceptable and iff so why are they continuing to report such offenders ???

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: OFT WIN

      the historic term results should be coming out soon, probably on or around 22 may (the case conference). Really, we can be sure that historic agreements are bound by the unfair terms regulations, the only question to answer is if they are covered by penalty charges common law.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: OFT WIN

        i like common law it makes sense to me if thats gone what do we have left as human rights?

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: OFT WIN

          Human rights law? Borg, can you clarify how? I know ECHR law was mentioned with regards to fair trial but what about contract law?

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: OFT WIN

            hi

            sorry i just meant general what we expect in life no human rights legislation or anything. sorry to confuse

            im just a concerned citizen

            common law always made sense to me but all this statute and regulations doesnt make sense to me

            if you do something you shouldnt its a breach of promise of contract for whatever reason result if you hurt someone its made right in law thats pay them there loss broken hearts are not so simple :-)

            thats why i like simple common (sense) law

            borgbaiter

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: OFT WIN

              what if you informally by making a payment ask for an overdraft? Some overdrafts can inur a charge for setting them up, is that a broken promise/breach of contract or something else? That is why I think the judge on certain aspects does not see breach of contract or the fairness principle. As I said I need to read the judgement because no I am speculating.

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: OFT WIN

                The point made in the last half dozen posts about the unfairness test not restricting charges to cost is an interesting one.

                As far as I can see it, the unfairness test (per UTCCR) doesn't deal at all well with setting "fair" charges - precisely because UTCCR isn't meant to apply to terms defining the price of the service provided. That's why there was at least a reasonable probability that the OFT's case would fail. So, UTCCR doesn't provide any sensible mechanism for setting price because it's not meant to.

                UTCCR is all about achieving a fair balance between the interests of the parties. I find it hard to get my head around how that would lead to the derivation of a reasonable charge for going overdrawn without the bank's consent. That reasonable charge certainly doesn't (IMHO) have to be restricted to cost, and I don't see any particular reason why it should bear any resemblance to the £12 credit card charge which seems to have been plucked out of the air.
                Last edited by argentarius; 24th April 2008, 19:11:PM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: OFT WIN

                  Sorry to be thick, I've read the thread an all the news articles but don't really know in plain simple english how this applies to us...post 38 helped me quite a bit - definitley written in language i understand

                  So do they have to give us the money back?

                  Do they have to stop charging so much?

                  Can some one explain it to me? Pretend I'm a five year old... I might just get it then
                  When we love, we always strive to become better than we are.

                  When we strive to become better than we are, everything around us becomes better too.

                  Paulo Coelho

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: OFT WIN

                    The people who look after mummy and daddy's money have been told that their rules where they take money from your parents may not be the right thing. The people who look after mummy and daddy's money can stlll take money from your parents if they are naughty but there is a big meeting on May 22nd that will be when all the people including the people who look after mummy and daddy's money will meet with a man who will wear a wig. In the building called a court of law they will discuss things again. It could still be another year or so before mummy and daddy may be able to get the money that the people who were taking it from them when they were naughty. Today was the first part of the journey. Is that ok, Mochamoo?

                    missed one bit, there is another lot of people who look after the people who look after mummy and daddy's money. They are called the Financial Services Authority and they have said that mummy and daddy have to punished without the chance to say NO I don't like it. They may soon say that they mummy and daddy can speak out against this being done to them. Maybe that bit is a bit of a fairy tale.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: OFT WIN

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Retail Banking Study
                      To: EXC
                      Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:48 PM
                      Subject: Bank Charges Test Case - Judgment of the High Court - 24 April 2008



                      Dear EXC
                      The OFT has issued a news release following the High Court ruling today which confirmed the OFT's view that personal current account unarranged overdraft fees can be assessed for fairness. The full text is attached and is published on the OFT's personal current account website at http://www.oft.gov.uk/advice_and_resources/resource_base/market-studies/personal.


                      <<News release.pdf>>
                      Further information on the background to the case can be found on the OFT's website together with a Questions and Answers documents which will be updated in light of the Judgment in the next 24 hours. The FSA has also published guidance for consumers on its website www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk. The Judgment can be found on the courts website at http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/oft_judgment_240408.pdf and a copy is also available on our website.
                      Kind regards
                      Kate Farrow | Retail Banking| Markets & Projects - Services| Office of Fair Trading
                      Fleetbank House | 2-6 Salisbury Square | London EC4Y 8JX | T: 020 7211 8816 |F: 020 7211 8819
                      Last edited by Amethyst; 24th April 2008, 23:48:PM. Reason: removed personal email addy

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: OFT WIN

                        Originally posted by tomterm8 View Post
                        the historic term results should be coming out soon, probably on or around 22 may (the case conference). Really, we can be sure that historic agreements are bound by the unfair terms regulations, the only question to answer is if they are covered by penalty charges common law.
                        I havent had a chance to read the full judgment yet but will do later this evening. However I think tomterm has hit the nail on the head.

                        It's pretty obvious that the historic terms will also be subject to a test of fairness per UTCCR1999. Bearing in mind that the recent changes to the Terms and Conditions were in the main to disguise the penalty charge aspect it is clear therefore that the Banks did a pretty good job, but not quite good enough to also evade UTCCR 1999. LOL.

                        I think there is a very very good chance that the penalty charge issue will be very difficult for the Judge to overlook with respect to historic terms.

                        There is also an excellent opportunity for the OFT to aid the Consumer in this regard by adapting and publishing the market study in advance of the CMC. Also bear in mind that in their response and counterclaim to the Banks defences the OFT did identify and annex various terms from all of the Banks that they considered could be classed as unenforcable penaltie under common law.

                        I believe that getting a favourable result wrt the penalty charge aspect for historic terms is probably the best opportunity for getting stays lifted after the CMC in May.

                        Will enjoy a good read this evening !!

                        Budgie

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                        • #57
                          Re: OFT WIN

                          They will be doing that anyway

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: OFT WIN

                            pmsl votex talking to a 5 year old worked lol
                            When we love, we always strive to become better than we are.

                            When we strive to become better than we are, everything around us becomes better too.

                            Paulo Coelho

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: OFT WIN

                              yes confusing isnt it? On the banks website they are claiming it is a pleasing result for them and on other news releases it says good news for customers probably bad news for banks. So each are reading it to suit themselves. I do understand this is the first stage though - but why are the banks still saying the final decision will be decided in court - not by the OFT - does not that make the power that the OFt have gained appear to be a hollow victory?
                              "What makes the desert beautiful is that somewhere it hides a well." - Antione de Saint Exupery

                              "Always reach for the moon, if you miss you'll end up among the stars"


                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: OFT WIN

                                because the oft let them say so. the oft is still of the opinion they need another court case to say what a "fair" charge is

                                Comment

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