BBA Test Case Q & A s

[EXC]

The British Banhers Assotiation has published Q & As about the test case.

Some of it is quite interesting especially their view that a judgement on
the first hearing could only take ''several weeks''.

But on the other hand some of it is classic BBA bo**cks as the last 3 answers demonstrate.

http://www.bba.org.uk/bba/jsp/polopo...?d=830&a=11961


Test case on overdraft fees Q&A

14/01/2008


9. Why did the Banks not commence a test case with a customer(s)?

Given that the OFT was conducting its own investigation and the need for the Test Case to lead to resolution for the Banks, customers and regulators, a test case with the OFT rather than individual customers was considered preferable. The OFT has indicated that its investigation and participation in the Test Case is to ensure that consumer interests are protected.

10. Who is paying for this process? Are taxpayers shouldering any of the burden?

All parties have agreed to pay their own costs of the Test Case including the OFT.

11. Will customers continue to incur unarranged borrowing fees throughout the Test Case?

Where customers continue to use the Banks' unarranged borrowing services, they will incur charges during the Court case in accordance with current Terms & Conditions. These charges are entirely avoidable if customers choose to arrange their borrowing with their bank in advance.

[Nattie]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

"Unarranged Borrowing Services"????? BBA talking a load of BB and more B out of their A.
NatWest- we used to call it "Unarranged Borrowing Fee" til we changed it to Maintenance fee just before the current terms and conditions were provided for the OFT test case.
Some customers would not be able to arrange their borrowing in advance.

I need to make this point which is slightly off topic. Each Branch of NatWest have the ability to provide the service by callling customers when they go into the red due to a DD going out so they can correct it. Each branch has a report of DD's/SO's being returned. It contains whether the item is being returned, Paid or Referred. The crap that is banded about that banks cannot check every defaulted account ie with a return item is utter fantasy. It's just we look at internal credit scores and if they do not fit the criteria*, they do NOT get a call(ok, their phone number could be wrong or not on their account).
Apologies but heard that argument yesterday and thought it was talking a load of B.

*criteria is usually eligible for Loan or other financial product from the bank. The bank does have the discretion to waive the fee if a product is taken from the bank.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

Exactly nattie, I for one have a basic bank account and have approached the bank at branch and over the phone to try and get an OD and was told due to the nature of the account no. I knew this would be the answer but just wanted it on record that I had tried and was refused ready for my second claim against LTSB.

[Nattie]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

they would not necessarily have it on record I am afraid unless they processed an application

[thephoenix]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

Each Branch of NatWest have the ability to provide the service by callling customers when they go into the red due to a DD going out so they can correct it. Each branch has a report of DD's/SO's being returned. It contains whether the item is being returned, Paid or Referred. The crap that is banded about that banks cannot check every defaulted account ie with a return item is utter fantasy.
This is interesting Nat, would you say it would be the same for pretty much ALL bank and Building Societies?????
If it is and they are not providing this 'service', surely the FSA are accountable again and another failure of statutory duty.

It's just we look at internal credit scores and if they do not fit the criteria*, they do NOT get a call(ok, their phone number could be wrong or not on their account).
Isn't this discrimination against those who have a spot of bad look or are taken to the cleaners in the first place by the very establishment who is failing in their duty????

*criteria is usually eligible for Loan or other financial product from the bank. The bank does have the discretion to waive the fee if a product is taken from the bank.

Or I could be talking a load of B/S

[scoobydoo]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

The information re-inforces my opinion that even if this case changes the structure of charges on bank accounts - that may actually be fairer for those most vunerable consumers. After all it is a bit like a tax in a way - surely we would (if we were caring members of society!) be up in arms if the lowest paid and most vunerable were being taxed more than the rest of us. And in affect this is what is happening - especially those who have no choice but to use a bank account to claim benefits. We need clarity on charges and also a system which also does not encourage people to borrow above their means - and then slap them down when they get into trouble.

As an ex BS employee I have been shocked to see those who have asked for help ( the right thing to do) be treated very badly. Personally I would pay some charges happily if I knew the banks would use the money to get their act together

I have also read about the phone systems that the banks use to filter those customers through who live in more affluent areas. Also I would point out on an occasion when I had made a mistake and went OD I immediately called and asked for a temporary OD I was refused. I had an excellent credit rating- I can think of no other reason other than they would gain more fees by charging me - which is why I started my action.

jan

Jan

[Nattie]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

Since the OFT test case the Bank have reinforced, i fact I would say hardened their stance. Now we are supposed to explain the fee but under almost NO circumstances look to refund them.

[thephoenix]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

Originally Posted by Nattie
Each Branch of NatWest have the ability to provide the service by callling customers when they go into the red due to a DD going out so they can correct it. Each branch has a report of DD's/SO's being returned. It contains whether the item is being returned, Paid or Referred. The crap that is banded about that banks cannot check every defaulted account ie with a return item is utter fantasy.
This is interesting Nat, would you say it would be the same for pretty much ALL bank and Building Societies?????
If it is and they are not providing this 'service', surely the FSA are accountable again and another failure of statutory duty.

It's just we look at internal credit scores and if they do not fit the criteria*, they do NOT get a call(ok, their phone number could be wrong or not on their account).
Isn't this discrimination against those who have a spot of bad look or are taken to the cleaners in the first place by the very establishment who is failing in their duty????

*criteria is usually eligible for Loan or other financial product from the bank. The bank does have the discretion to waive the fee if a product is taken from the bank.
Or I could be talking a load of B/S

Just wondered, under the freedom of information act, what are the possibilities of actually obtaining all the records for OD requests together with the bank response and reasons.
If they are filtering calls or using a sort of post code filtering criteria for the more affluent areas, then we could somehow use this information.

[Nattie]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

None whatsoever because the decision making process would be classed as a trade secret.
I am not aware in NatWest of any filtering of calls. There is telephone numbers of Private Banking customers which is different to core market ie not private banking, and there is telephone numbers for Collections team and retail recoveries that are different. It is not filtering but it is speaking to the appropriate person who can help.

[thephoenix]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

None whatsoever because the decision making process would be classed as a trade secret.
.

unless it was in the publics interest to know (or something like that) and due to the decision process having a direct impact on whether a customer receives an unlawful penalty charge or not.

mmmmm interesting to say the least.

at the end of the day, IF a customer requests a temporary (or permanent) OD to cover monies going out and to avoid a penalty charges and the bank refuses.
They then have an open profit making scheme. This could be avoided if they agree to the OD and a small charge (i hate that word).......

Yes it's ultimately the customers responsibility to manage their own account but as you have said, the banks have a net to catch those who will be issued with a penalty charge before it happens and have the means to avoid it.
Therefore surely the decision on whether a customer receives a penalty charge lies with the failure of procedures and not customer mismanagement.
If there was no system in place, then it's ultimately the customer who issues his own penalty charge.

i'll shut up now

[Nattie]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

I need to be careful in my wording here, BUT i know of a case where someone DID ask for the decision making in the case of their overdraft on their specific account and the trade secret argument was used. It means that unfortunately they could argue that in front of a judge, not that I am suggesting that you would take it that far.

[Nattie]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

Another point that could be made is that of variance of contract. There is nothing that stops you giving the bank 28 days notice of a variation in contract that you will charges them for each letter you write to them to cover your administration. I have seen but 1 case of this happening(well the variation in contract not the charge bit) so it could in theory be done. If no response within 28 days then the variation is accepted.

[scoobydoo]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

Actually to add to the argument above i will add the following: I have two bank accounts - one for DD and bills and one for "spending"

We are very lucky to be above average income earners and the highest salary was paid into the "bills" account. Now normally I would have said they would want to keep our business - however- the reason i think I was refused the temp overdraft ( to give me the chance to trf monies) was I think because they could see we were only using the account for money in then out in DD. In otherwords normally it would not be an account of any benefit to them. They then gained £134 in charges.

And yet two months later when we finished a loan - they immediately gave us a priority acceptance for a new one! (A&L )

This is why I became cynical of the tactics.

The telephone filtering system I mentioned was in the press and I heard worked on a system where the incoming number would identify the area in the country where the call was from and the areas would be graded in terms of affluence. Not sure how true it is as you can only believe 50% of what you read in the press!:rolleyes:

jan

[thephoenix]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

Another point that could be made is that of variance of contract. There is nothing that stops you giving the bank 28 days notice of a variation in contract that you will charges them for each letter you write to them to cover your administration. I have seen but 1 case of this happening(well the variation in contract not the charge bit) so it could in theory be done. If no response within 28 days then the variation is accepted.

sorry for sounding a bit dumb could you explain this 'variance of contract' in a bit more detail. What does it mean exactly???? and what does it entail????

Ta matey

[Nattie]

Re: BBA Test Case Q & A s

In banks contracts, have a read of them, they say they can vary the contract giving i believe it is 28 days notice. IF the bank can do this, then so can you as there are two parties to a contract.