OFT DROP bank charges case - leaks by sky news and sarah mccarthy-fry in advance ..

[righty]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

The OFT are far to cosy with the banks. Negotiating with them is like a homeowner agreeing with a burglar on just what he can nick
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Gutted. Would like to know how much the OFT took on board from the consumer groups discussions.

Nowt apparently

[Amethyst]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

The OFT did actually take a lot of our opinion and arguments on board and passed our submissions on the legal arguments and fors and againsts continuing action to their legal counsel.

MSE lawyers appear to be in agreement with the OFTs counsel that it is not strong enough to take into court as an all encompassing argument.

The OFT have said they were impressed with our input especially with regards to our concerns about the future structure of PCAs (the implictation being as opposed to other groups who just concentrate on 'we want our money back'!) and that our contribution has been 'most helpful'.

We have to look forwards now and concentrate on people in hardship, and helping people come out the other end of this with as little disadvantage as possible, as well as working with the regulators and OFT and government towards a fairer system of banking.

[Curlyben]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

Welll that was a waste of TWO years and a few million quid.
Kind of makes my day, and to cap it all my laptop decides to get a serious hardware fault as well !!

[Centium5000]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

I felt the same way as you this morning ben - then I read Ame's post and thought about where it leaves us:

A great post Ame.

As a result of the OFT consultation, we now have a large arsenal of reasons why the charges are unfair, and ones that don't rely on the excessive nature of them.

The FOS, which only deals on an individual basis, should be receptive to these when considering our complaints - the quantity and quality of the arguments should give them the scope to uphold in our favour.

Also, as many of the arguments are in as yet uncharted territory for the banks, I would expect them to be reluctant to challenge them individually in court and risk a precedent.

Still, as Ame points out above, going to court does carry a lot of risk so the FOS route is likely the best option for most.

The main thing is, let's not be downbeat. The banks would love 1.2 million complaints to go away as a downbeat public go back to Christmas shopping.

We've reasons to be positive, pages of them. Thanks LB!

Merry-almost-Christmas to you all.

Although it would have been encouraging for the OFT to take further action, this now means it's back in our hands.

We're better equipped than ever to take on the banks, we'll just have to do it ourselves is all.

P.S. sorry to hear about your laptop mate, hope it's under warranty.

[Dexter]

Re: Our thoughts on the bank charges situation....

Very interesting info on the role of the FOS on their website (it takes a bit of routing around on their role and constitutional set up) concerning there role under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 and reference to the close 'constitutinal ' relationship with FSA and in turn therefore through that the OFT. Principle 6 of the FSA's dispute resoltion handbook, about, suprise suprise 'customer's interest' and treating customers fairly. There has got to be some mileage in the FOS having a constitutional responsibility to listen (or read) the findings of the OFT regarding bank charges and the OFTs offer to act as witness if necessary regarding claims.

[Centium5000]

Re: Our thoughts on the bank charges situation....

Absolutely Dexter - and we've got plenty of arguments for the FOS to consider / for the OFT to support us in:

http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...4&d=1260732883

I expect that template letters to the FOS won't be long coming.

Chin up guys...

[ed.]

Re: Our thoughts on the bank charges situation....

lol Dexter, was mentioned a few hours ago in relation to the FOS saying they will most likely kick complaints because of the Supreme Judgement when they routinely ignore the law in favour of fairness when it suits them.

Good thinking and yes it'll play it's part along with everything else as we move forward!

[Curlyben]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

Cent, I hear what your saying, but surely this has basically changed nowt, other than increasing the amount of ammunition we now have for use against the banks.
I'm sure they have been having fun and games with the corporate shredders over the last few years to ensure we don't receive all of the information we are entitled to.

This is going to end up with even more action in the County Court system, surely what they were trying to avoid, unless the OFT come to an "arrangement" similar to credit cards.
While the OFT didn't actually asses on the overall fairness, the "limit" has been useful in resolving claims in a more timely fashion.
Even the ones that have been filed in court have folded before hearings.
Yes there are some notable exceptions, see Budgie, but overall the claim process has been straightforward.

While there are a majority of claimants that have a scant grasp of the complete legal position of the banks charges, a position form the OFT would of enabled their claims to be heard.

Ps warranty, nope ran out in Feb !!!

[Jester]

Re: Our thoughts on the bank charges situation....

Let's just hope that the Banks don't suddenly move to have anything that is already in the County Court System struck out forthwith.

I've already posted the letter from First Direct (HSBC) stating that they intend to wash their hands of my 'complaint' unless I respond within 8 weeks. I think it is now only a matter of time before their Solicitors get in touch to this effect. Indeed, I believe at least one Beagle member has already received such a letter from the Banks Solicitor.

Hopefully, we will get the breathing space to be able to formulate proper arguments against against the Banks should it come to this. I for one, am not about to give up now having been fighting this fight since January 2007.

If we make enough of a pain of ourselves, hopefully the Banks will start to fail to turn up to court again as they did before the waiver was put in place.

[Amethyst]

Re: Our thoughts on the bank charges situation....

The banks appear to be asking for stays of 3 months to allow claimants to amend POCs etc. Hopefully this will continue and give people time to decide what to do.

[MrsSkint]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

effin' banks - gonna be charged £40 for DD's going through today (not getting paid 'till tomorrow). Rang them up to see if they could help but Oh No. Well Happy Effin' Christmas Natwest - NOT!

[Centium5000]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

Cent, I hear what your saying, but surely this has basically changed nowt, other than increasing the amount of ammunition we now have for use against the banks.

Spot on ben.

The thing is, this is being presented as the banks winning some kind of ultimate victory.

As you say, nothing has changed other than that we now have more arguments, and many of those are a direct result of the OFT action. (e.g. Misrep / UTCCR 5(1) 'services' arguments).

If this allows for a compelling argument to be made to the FOS, it can avoid the risk of court, although that route is still open if the FOS complaints fail, or where proceedings are already in motion.

If the banks win the propaganda war, many will be deterred from even going down the FOS route.

Hopefully we can get the message across clearly enough to ensure it's not only the veteran campaigners that carry on.

Hey, if RATM can take No. 1 from Simon Cowell, there's hope for grassroots movements yet eh?

[stewie082]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

Whats stopping us writting to the Supreme Court to ask what avenue would have best suited a better result for consumers?

Its clear they would have ruled in our favour if the OFT had chosen a different argument under the terms. Why cant they tell us what route to take?

Or is this for us to find out?

[natweststaffmember]

Re: OFT drop case - What are the options for consumers with charges claims ?

Just to add to what Amethyst has said, there is still a lot of things going on with regards to the financial hardship issues with regards to dealing with creditors of all kinds rather than simply diving straight in and asking the bank to refund charges. Please remember that gigantic leaps have gone on during the last 2 years and that there is further discussions about the current situation. Let's take time to think about this. If everyone is saying the last two years was a waste then it is an point of view that I don't agree with in the general scheme of things. We have moved a long way forward.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Our thoughts on the bank charges situation....

We have to remain positive and to remain focused on those who have claims in the system and those who continue to struggle due to financial hardship.
Remember, there are many inadequate advice on that level and I hope that we can be more stronger all round across all consumer groups on that issue.
The advice varied from who cares about financial hardship to grasp at straws on financial hardship to some very good stuff. I hope that financial hardship/difficulties cases are not forgotten in the stampede to petrol bomb the OFT et al verbally in the coming days.