OFT Test Case on Bank Charges ......from House of Lords to Supreme Court

[EXC]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Amethyst got the main points of the day dealt with in her summaries.

Sumption for the banks was on all day. Like the first appeal the judges didn't interupt with questions as much as Smith did in the High Court.

The main legal points he was arguing were the interpretation of the EU Directive (including drafts!) by the UTCCR regulations and the definition of 'price' as stated in the regulations. He cherry picked quite a bit from the First National Bank and Easy Car judgments.

He also seemed to stray into giving non-legal arguments by accusing the OFT of ''attacking'' them on two fronts and trying to force price control on the banks. He made lots of references to the OFT PCA Market Study in which he criticised some of the OFT's findings.

The only real debate during his submission was on the cross subsidy where the banks eek their income from just 20% of their customer base. Although Sumtion was right to say this is not illegal
and cross subsidy exists in other markets the Law Lords did appear to express some doubt as to the morality of it. This is when one Law Lord suggested the banks are like ''Robin Hood in reverse.

Hopefully we should get to see the OFT reply tomorrow.

[TANZARELLI]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Thanks for the updates folks.

Straws....clutching!!!

Springs to mind.

[Amethyst]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Does seem strange doesn't it. I suppose the Judges have already read the judgments and papers from the other hearings so the banks are just sticking everything possible into the mix.

This thing about Price Control - does anyone think this might be taken further ?

Basically the arguments seem to be

1) The OFT are picking on us (act fairly and properly and maybe they wouldnt be)

2) Charges are an income stream which is why they are so high and subsidises other parts of the business and every one does it (so thats okay then)

3) Charges are part of the Price for having the account (maybe an actual legal argument dun dun darrr)

4) Charges cover the foregon interest (I dont understand that bit)

5) The consequences of the HoL finding against them will be huge .... ( yes AND.... )



missed anything?


oh this bit jumped out

20% of their customer base

pays for the 80% of customers accounts ?????????????

doesn't fit in with the PCA report figures does it.

[righty]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

The OFT could accuse the banks of being part of a cartel in that most of their penalty charges seem to have a certain narrow consistency re their level

[Amethyst]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Aye why is that - didnt they argue Market Forces thing ?

[TANZARELLI]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Does seem strange doesn't it. I suppose the Judges have already read the judgments and papers from the other hearings so the banks are just sticking everything possible into the mix.

This thing about Price Control - does anyone think this might be taken further ?

Basically the arguments seem to be

1) The OFT are picking on us (act fairly and properly and maybe they wouldnt be) (No they are bringing you to task for your blatant fleecing of a minority of you customer base who are easy prey for you to make huge amounts of profit to please you shareholders and also pay your extremely high bonuses, salaries and pensions even after you have brought on a recession due to your stupidity)

2) Charges are an income stream which is why they are so high and subsidises other parts of the business and every one does it (so thats okay then) (The Big Issue is a funding stream for homeless people but that doesn't cost £39.00)(Also if other firms are ripping off customers then its only a matter of time before the consumer brings them to task also)

3) Charges are part of the Price for having the account (maybe an actual legal argument dun dun darrr) (Not PiL in the T&Cs then if this is the case as it has not been sold to customers like this)

4) Charges cover the foregon interest (I dont understand that bit) (In other words they are saying its a legit profit which we all know is utter twaddle)

5) The consequences of the HoL finding against them will be huge .... ( yes AND.... ) (Best start getting your house in order then ready for the inevitable)



missed anything?


oh this bit jumped out pays for the 80% of customers accounts ?????????????

doesn't fit in with the PCA report figures does it. (Cant remeber the stats of the top of my head, but prob not if you have spotted it)

lol

I wonder what their test case expediture sheet looks like at present ie how much its cost the banks.......................well the taxpayer prob more to the point?

[Jester]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

I always wondered that point too. The government own many of these institutions now so effectively the government is fighting with itself. I'm sure the monies that was used to bail out these banks was not intended to be used extravagantly on enriching Barristers in further fleecing the general public with their own money.

If pressure could be applied on the 'publicly' owned banks thru the government to back down, then the rest would be forced to fold like a pack of cards surely ?

Another thought, I wonder if the OFT are aware of the recent ECJ ruling in regard to this ? Maybe something that could be brought into the debate at the HoL. After all, the only place left for the banks to go if they lose this one is the ECJ and the ECJ have already stated their view of this haven't they ?

[natweststaffmember]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

I don't agree with this taxpayers own the banks argument. Estimates range 15-20 million squid. However, RBS Group insured £250billion in debts with HMT so it miniscule in those circumstances.

[Amethyst]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

WEDNESDAY - Budgie (hopefully) and EXC will be attending and reporting back at 1ish, then again at 4ish.... so tune in then for the latest installment from the House of Lords...........

[Jester]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

WEDNESDAY - Budgie (hopefully) and EXC will be attending and reporting back at 1ish, then again at 4ish.... so tune in then for the latest installment from the House of Lords...........

Much better than following soaps

[Sapphire]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Much better than following soaps

Ahhhhhhh but what about the Archers on Radio 4 it can be pretty racey at times :beagle:

[showergirl]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

I would just like to thank everyone on the team who takes the time to keep us informed as to what is going on with this case.

If it was not for you guys we would all be in the dark.

Keep up the good work

[EXC]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Got here early today - Having breakfast in the Jubilee bar with Budgie. Well muffin & coffee and very nice too. 90p a cup subsidised by you. Thanks.

We are just going to nip around the back of the House of Commons for a quick ciggy before joining the queue into Committee room 4A. That of course is assuming we can get past the queue at the "fees" office ( where all the MP's are waiting to pay back their overclaimed expenses ).

We will try and get a report out to Ame at lunchtime.

Exc + Budgie

[Amethyst]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

We are just going to nip around the back of the House of Commons for a quick ciggy before joining the queue into Committee room 4A

pmsl that made me laugh

[crashbandicoot]

Re: TODAY at the House of Lords - OFT v Banks latest news

Thanks to you all for keeping us up-to-date with everything...fingers crossed and POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!!

Crash