FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

[Fred]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

I'll add my WOW to that!!

nem

Is this then a consideration under the CCA 1974 140 "unfair relationships" &/or as a result of consideration under the SCLG ?........................................Wow again :juge:

[Mic]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

I won't add a wow after reading this.
I really don't have the evidence to hand upon which to comment, but I would imagine it was so overwhelming, that the FOS had to make the decision they did.

On one hand you have an individual we know nothing about, being able to present evidence to the FOS, and the Firstplus Financial who may have put both feet into it with the oh so common theme from the large company point of view, of, I am right you are wrong attitude.

[skintmember]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

Hi Di,
i hope it's ok to post here, im beside myself.
i have just received a decision on a case regarding a few issues Namely sfc aol PayPal
San Jose.
The bank say to the Fos that they have no information on the any of the dates.
i asked. (Any) My husband called the bank constantly asking who sfc were, and why they they were taking thes amounts each months.
as this was going on since 1994 We thought we thought it was a standing fee charge. For having an overdraft. (Which it was not) it was statement frequency charge. Taken as as a standing order. On a different day to any other charges such as overdraft interest.

The amounts changed on two occasions the last time. Was in 2009.

thats when we started to question it. (The bank Would not tell us who the money was going to.)they said they didn't know went quiet changed the subject.
they remained tight lipped. Still are
It was only by chance we found out It was going to a Yorkshire bank account
be honest in 1994 he didn't really know how a standing order worked.
He knew it was like a direct Debit.
The Fos adudicator says as they don't have records she can't uphold.
and there isn't much point contesting it as the Fos will most likely agree with her.

We are in severe hardship and repossession we are owed money from hmrc
We had to sack our old accountant our new accountant can't get the information to apply for the overpayment of several thousands of cis.
as a result we can't pay our wages since May....
We tried to apply for working tax but they say they want proof of earnings. But our accountant has been waiting since janruary for this information.
but hmrc won't confirm our wages for 14/15 however we put down what we should get paid. As we will need to be refunded. they say they may prosecute if we have given false information. So can't claim working tax credit job seekers so we are living in nothing.
selling our worldly goods.
everyday we have nothing unless I sell something on eBay.
This can't be right can it.
I wondered if you had any advise please

[nemesis45]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

Hello KG,

Trying to refresh my memory, the continuing payments taken from the account
by standing order reference as " sfc " the bank "Unable or an wiling to disclose
who or what " sfc " is.

I don't recall the " Yorkshire Bank " involvement though perhaps you can assist on this
point please.

nem,

[Mic]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

A few points here.
Firstly was the communication in writing with the bank, when you asked who SFC was, and did you tell them to stop paying it. ?

A standing order is something you set up yourself to pay someone on a regular basis, the amount to pay is set up by yourself and cannot be changed by the recipient.

A direct debit is an agreement between you and someone else to allow them to take a specified amount of money from your account, on a regular basis, usually monthly. There must be a 40 day notice period for any change of amount paid by a direct debit, before a company can take any amount, so you should have been told by letter.
Whether the bank has records or not is not a problem as your statements issued by the bank will show the payments being made. However you should make a subject access request, paying them £10. They have to provide any information they do have, which may show something you can use.

As far as the FOS adjudicator is concerned, they are pretty useless, with regards to many types of cases, opting to take the easy line, by believing the banks. If you can present them with hard facts, then they may change their tune. A statement showing that payments have gone to SFC, will require them to ask the bank who this is, regardless of the bank having records or not. They certainly know which bank was paid by the sort code and account number they sent the money to.

As far as working tax credit is concerned, you merely have to state what your actual income was, and submit the accounts to prove it. I don't understand where your accountant is wanting the records from, surely he has all the books ?

[skintmember]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

Hi mic,
the standing order was taken by the name sfc on the 15th of the month,
In 2009 the amount when down, from £3.35 to £1.66
when himself asked who it was going out to the bank said they didn't know.
and they had never heard of sfc.
they said he would have to find out himself,
which is why he didn't cancel it there and then.
All the while the bank knew it was going to Yorkshire bank his branch.
For a statement frequency charge for having weekly statements sent.

someone must have told him somewhere along the line, as he had written sfc and an account number and sort code on a 2010 bank statement.
It was just by sorting out the many copies of statements that I came across it.

At the beginning of this year I asked him to check with the bank.n
First he asked who sfc were he was passed to three separate people.
it was only when he relayed the sort account number did they admit this.

The bank are saying they don't have any records of ever having these conversations.
via telephone banking and via SARS department.

when the SARS first arrived. Just 6 years of statements arrived so he called the SARS department. who didn't know who sfc were and nothing was showing where it was going.
they then sent 3 sets of ten years of bank statements.
and credit card statements. This was only last year.... When we found out it started in 1994

i have shown the adjudicator statements with charges the
i have said he wouldn't set a standinging order to come out on the 15th of the month in 1994
as he was paid on the 25th.

himself explained to the bank that the bank have changed the standing order twice since 2001 once in 2004 once in 2009 less than 6 years ago, so why don't they have the information.

He also said that the bank shouldn't be taking charges via standing order and on a different day than other bank overdraft charges
i have said I have a tape recording of one conversation,
i have other dates with my own notes.
So am waiting to see what they come back with.

i cant see why the bank withheld this information from him if that's why they were taking funds from him.







.

[skintmember]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

My husbands Yorkshire bank account.
£3.00 2001 onwards 2004 £3.35 to £1.66 in 2009
continued payments taken on the 15th of the month.
As SO Sfc himself throught was standing fee charge.( Overdraft)
in 2009 he inquired about it going down the bank said they didn't as they didn't have that information he has asked several people who always went silent or were closed off.
eventually he cancelled it in 2011.
he thought it could have been an old investment. For the kids or life policy. Sfc

I requested SARS in 2014 they did not send any transcripts or recordings whatsoever.
in 2015 He made a formal complaint. About sfc
when We found out a standing order cannot be changed by anyone other than the account holder (himself).

(this was literally days before we actually found out it was going to Yorkshire bank)
so he went it to branch she wanted to see what evidence he had the woman couldn't explain, she openly accused him of only wanting his charges back.
which got his back up. She offered him £10
which is a fraction of the funds charges taken.

he then asked the SARS department who put him through to the complaints department who sent a letter saying he was in charge of the standing order at all times.
blah blah, which he forwarded to the Fos.

along with the final letter saying he could only go back 6 years and as it was cancelled in 2011 he would refund just £60.03. For payments made.

Plus a standard letter dated a day later saying we are still looking into your complaint.
so it obvious they are still messing people about drawing claims out for as long as possible.
alk the ehike knowing we are in severe hardship.

[skintmember]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

His accountant was sacked as he was found out not to be doing the books correctly and some not at all.
we now have a new accountant but the old accountant won't give him the books.
So we are waiting for Hmrc to send the figures, since January)

[Mic]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

So firstly the old accountant has stolen the books, which I believe is a criminal offence, although doubtless someone will set me straight if I am wrong. Even if your old accountant said he was owed money, it does not give him the right to withhold those books, unless he created them in the first place. You can always ask that he returns all other paperwork as anything which does not belong to him is of course theft.

I think you may be mixing up standing orders, with direct debits, going by what you are saying. You do need to get the terminology correct for when you contact the banks or anyone else for that matter. Slippery customers some people and will deny things if they can.
I only go by the following.
the standing order was taken by the name sfc on the 15th of the month,
In 2009 the amount when down, from £3.35 to £1.66
An amount is not taken by anyone with a standing order, it is just you transferring money to someone else's account. Furthermore any change in payment does have to be made by your husband. The bank cannot change amounts, they can only stop a standing order, where there is not enough money to pay that order.
Conversely, if it had been a direct debit the date would have varied around the 15th of each month, and is taken by the recipient. The recipient, not your husband can very the amount taken, but under the direct debit guarantee scheme, they must notify the payer in good reasonable time.

Any company that does not comply with a SAR in full needs to be reported to the Information Commissioner’s Office, just raise a complaint with that office. The bank will have to give full details of any and all information they hold on file about your husband. There is no time limitation on this.

The bank is incorrect in its assumption it can only go back 6 years. They can only do this if they have given the correct information from day one, which they apparently have not done, so I would think the 3 year rule applies. If a company withholds information that they should reasonably have released when you first enquired about the transaction, then any money to be paid can be claimed since day one. Don't forget to charge compound interest on this money.

Again I stand to be corrected, if someone knows this to be incorrect, however there have been a number of cases where this rule has been applied. Banks will invariably try not to tell you something and rely on the ignorance of the customer.

[skintmember]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

Sorry nemesis it's very confusing with the name Sfc As Sfc can mean lots of things in finance.
yorkshire Bank are his bank who were taking funds for statement frequency requests set up in 1994.
He thought it was standing fee charge for his overdraft.

In 2009 when the amounts went down. He asked about Sfc and they couldn't or wouldn't tell him
Even though they had plenty of opportunities to admit it was for a non standard service.
Weekly statements which are 50p say the bank which didn't add up.
Even after receiving his SARS there was nothing in them that shown what it was for, after finding out a standing order cannot be changed by anyone but himself made a complaint saying he didn't know who Sfc were or why they were taking money.

It it only came to light when I was going through old papers there was Sfc written and £1.66 so at some point from 2010 and 2014 did someone did tell him.
As when he rolled the account numbers written did they transfer him to his branch and someone knew straight away
the sane lady cannot explain why they are taking statement charges via standing order.

when asked who changed the amounts she said she didn't know.

[nemesis45]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

Hi KG,
Is it still being taken?

nem

[skintmember]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

hi thanks for the advice.
Yes the old accountant was being hit and miss with the books so we started to ask Hmrc for information ourselves.
As we were certain we were owed money in CIS Payments taken from clients that would cover our Paye Nic and tax

we found Hmrc had £19,000 in a locked account as they put it.
We then provided Hmrc with invoices & payment Certificates.
We found out there was lots of fines and were trying to wind us up.
for not providing accounts. An Hmrc agent who was dealing with our account had some fines
removed when we showed proof of Postage, for CIS taken from the lads ( that we were in charge of)
After paying everything from this £19,000
thete is around £4000 due to us but they won't release it this had been going on since janruary
Bearing in mind The he old accountant was he has been taking £75 a month and not doing the books.

I'm very sure the payments were taken via standing order.
here's a link
for one of the statements and how they were set out.
https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0C5nhQSTGh0cLy
you will see it was taken on the 16th 15th must have fell on a Sunday or something.

[skintmember]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

No he cancelled in 2011 two years after asking the bank numerous times and also trying to find out via the internet.

[Mic]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

I think I see what you are saying, but still have no idea where the standing order comes in.

I presume the bank have been making charges from your husbands account for something, therefore it is solely down to the bank. That they say they don't know about this is nonsense.

The bank have clearly withheld information, so a complaint to the ICO would be in order. If they cannot or are unwilling to part with the information, the ICO officer will make sure they conform to the law.

[Fred]

Re: FOS Ombudsman Final Decisions

http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.u...x?FileID=69192

http://www.ombudsman-decisions.org.u...x?FileID=88543

Couple of interesting decisions upheld on Firstplus in 2015 for those interested.