The EU referendum

[Kati]

Re: The EU referendum

Unless you have a good lawyer EU law means nothing. EU law only benefits workers who are either state or emanation (ie in public jobs or public banks). There are few exceptions to this rule but people in none state jobs are unlikely to benefit from EU law, unless coach and lorry drivers, ie 45 mins break and those covered under the Working Directive albeit there are exemptions for employers. Equality Rights mean nothing without a good lawyer. However, paternal and maternity rights are important and do come from EU law and will be observed by employers, ie binding. Benefit sanctions are different and are not covered by EU law - EU law generally means protection for workers when they transfer to another state, as usually the member state (ie the UK) has its own competence. So EU law is more about between EU countries' law.

I didn't need an EU lawyer when I helped someone take the DWP to the ECJ (and WON) ... unfair/unjust/illegal sanction overturned without the help of a lawyer at all!! They ARE covered by Eu and Human Rights laws (and if we were not in the EU there would be less successful/rightful appeals being allowed)
My ex OH benefits daily from EU subsidies (he's a dry-stone waller and the farmer gets 30%+ of his costs back per meter of wall).

[wales01man]

Re: The EU referendum

ENAID has it right no one knows what will happen despite spouting all sorts of crap polls and projections are no way accurate rember the polls at the last election???????

[charitynjw]

Re: The EU referendum

My ex OH benefits daily from EU subsidies (he's a dry-stone waller and the farmer gets 30%+ of his costs back per meter of wall).

The subsidy doesn't cover mortar, then?

eep: <----(Wet stone wall!)

:taunt:

[EXC]

Re: The EU referendum

The latest figures show that between 1993 (the dawn of the single market) and 2015 there were 36 countries – including India, Russia, China, America, New Zealand, Canada, Brazil – who did better than the UK at exporting to the single market.

Straight from BoJo's mouth http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...o-be-in-it-to/

To be fair Boris Johnson isn't the most impartial source of infromation when it comes to facts and figures on the EU.

That statement is pretty meaningless. What's ''did better than the UK'' actually mean? Do you know? Does he?

[PAWS]

Re: The EU referendum

1993 ???? About 20 years out there but being precise is not their strong suit.

Of course they exported more into the EU. They are exporting to the EU as a group. As I said before the EU has negotiated preferential trading rates with most of these countries. How could we, a much smaller country export as much as they do?
Does he realise some of those countries are part of the British c'wealth!

[Stu]

Re: The EU referendum

Thinking more of the re-posts of rather one sided misleading essays plastered across facebook and other forums that are finding their way onto here.

How is it misleading ??

And my apologies on not starting that it was taken from social media, in no way was I trying to take this as my own it was shared as I strongly believe in the said statement ...

[Openlaw15]

Re: The EU referendum

I didn't need an EU lawyer when I helped someone take the DWP to the ECJ (and WON) ... unfair/unjust/illegal sanction overturned without the help of a lawyer at all!! They ARE covered by Eu and Human Rights laws (and if we were not in the EU there would be less successful/rightful appeals being allowed)
My ex OH benefits daily from EU subsidies (he's a dry-stone waller and the farmer gets 30%+ of his costs back per meter of wall).

Katie, to be fair 1) you're a legal beagle so you automatically have tenacity and will challenge the law; 2) EU law covers state or state emanation, ie DWP is government so government is covered in EU and Convention (human rights) law. Besides you and your legal curiosity, without a lawyer how many of the average population do you think would do what you did? We have EU law a part of the qualifying law degree for a reason, ie to make EU lawyers. EU law is very complex actually, it relates to competition law (Freedom of Goods), Freedom of business including Financial etc, so not just Freedom of Movement, and in accordance with the Treaty and Functioning of the European Union (TFEU), no discrimination too. Kudos to you though for standing your ground against DWP. The European Court of Justice (ECJ) is the highest EU Court (as you clearly know) and, in a recent government case, it had taken the government 2 years to just to stop EU migrants claiming tax credits, as per the recent news. I would be interested to know about the sanction details if you care to tell me. I wonder how much it cost DWP to defend the sanctions at the ECJ. How long did it take for you friend's/ family's case for to be heard by the ECJ?

3) Farmers in the UK I believe do not all benefit from EU subsidies, or if they do they may not all receive the same subsidies, perhaps the subsidy is related to the size of their business and its material benefits, ie a large farming community who supplies the Waitrose and Sainsbury's etc. I do know that EU law benefits larger businesses when I studied EU competition law, which in my view could stop the trade of other useful goods coming to the UK. I also know anecdotally through a friend who works in government that the farmers have to meet a certain criteria, so farmers may get into trouble for exaggerating circumstances. The government do various surveillances and monitoring to ensuring the farmers are using the correct modelling. So, it's not that straight forward.

[Amethyst]

Re: The EU referendum

you're a legal beagle so you automatically have tenacity and will challenge the law;

I quite like that


I've pinned my colours to the mast ( is that the right saying ?) and stuck my VOTE REMAIN poster in my front window this morning

[enaid]

Re: The EU referendum

I lied, I can't keep quiet on this lol

Ok I read we need skilled people from the EU well fair enough.
We also have to have EU workers on the farms etc as we Brits will not do such menial jobs or for the low pay the job provides.
So now comes my simples math lol
EU worker on low wage does not earn enough to pay Tax or NI therefore putting nothing in the coffers zilch in
Brit worker wont pick fruit so is on JSA he takes out of the system at least Ł57.90 per week up to Ł114.85 per week various amounts out

Tell me just how that helps us please?

[pt2537]

Re: The EU referendum

can i just say one thing about the NHS,

Its not immigrants who are shafting the NHS, in fact without them the NHS would have fallen over, just look at the nurses and doctors figures and where they are from to prove that, but also in terms of money, its the government who are fcuking the NHS by not giving it enough money plain and simple.

[des8]

Re: The EU referendum

Too simplistic, enaid!

EU worker puts in effort which keeps some of our basic needs satisfied , but may not pay INCOME tax or NI, but he does pay VAT and fuel duty etc if he runs a car.
Similarly man on benefits/JSA pays VAT etc.
They both put in or return something to the coffers

It makes my blood boil when politicians claim that certain people don't put anything in, or dont pay tax.

and why refer to low paid jobs as "menial". A derogatory phrase which demeans the essential services that many low paid jobs fullfil?

[enaid]

Re: The EU referendum

That's what we are told eu workers do the jobs we won't do

[des8]

Re: The EU referendum

won't or can't?
For whatever reason there are not always indigenous locals who can do the available jobs, so migrants are employed.

[PAWS]

Re: The EU referendum

The farmers not only spend locally and support their local community but small farmers keep this ‘green and pleasant land’ well….green and pleasant. They also(although small farmers produce small amounts) produce the food in our bellies. If they are not subsidised large farms will buy them out and the result will be large landowners controlling food prices. This would be catastrophic especially when it comes to dairy and grain.
The NHS is managed by idiots-most of them do not know their ‘a**e from their elbows never mind having any knowledge or appreciation of medical practices. That wouldn’t be so bad if they had a bit of common sense when it came to running a business. They know f all about f all.

[enaid]

Re: The EU referendum

This was from 2 years ago just wonder if it has panned out.
SAWS scrapped

Did SAWS workers stay in Britain and find other employment after their contracts expired?
No. SAWS workers were provided with a working visa, which allowed them to stay for between five weeks and six months only. Workers were required to provide a permanent address for the duration of their stay, and paid tax and national insurance.

Last year, Cobrey employed 20 unemployed Brits for seasonal work, but none of them stayed for the whole season and most left after one day.
“Most people who are unemployed in the UK don’t live where the work is available and they don’t want to do this sort of job,” she says.
“The majority don’t want to come and cut asparagus for roughly the minimum wage. They think they’re worth more than that, but it’s still a very important job.”

http://www.fwi.co.uk/arable/farmers-...ker-scheme.htm

PS Des the fact the Brit and the EU worker both spend and add to the economy is true, but in my simples math that balances out, one is spending from benefits provided by the tax payer, the other is spending from his wage that is too low to have deductions