How much trouble am I in?

[Icarus2016]

I have been incredibly stupid. I was suspended from my job yesterday afternoon. I work for a major chain store on the shop floor, I am a shift manager.

The suspension is in relation to fraudulent refunds (I am guilty, no arguments there). The amounts total just over £2000 and cover a period of around 18 months. The individual amounts vary from £250 to £800. I processed refunds using genuine customer details but then took the cash myself.

I have worked for the company for 7 years and have no previous convictions, not even a parking ticket. I have been asked to attend a meeting next Friday, I am guessing I will be dismissed but don't know if the police are involved.

Can I resign and avoid the disciplinary? If the police get involved will I be arrested? What will happen in court?

How difficult will it be to get another job? I am 29, my wife thinks I am on annual leave and I am barely keeping things together. I can't talk any friends or family, they would be appalled at what I have done. The money was spent on weekends away and car repairs, nothing extravagant.

[nemesis45]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

I have been incredibly stupid. I was suspended from my job yesterday afternoon. I work for a major chain store on the shop floor, I am a shift manager.

The suspension is in relation to fraudulent refunds (I am guilty, no arguments there). The amounts total just over £2000 and cover a period of around 18 months. The individual amounts vary from £250 to £800. I processed refunds using genuine customer details but then took the cash myself.

I have worked for the company for 7 years and have no previous convictions, not even a parking ticket. I have been asked to attend a meeting next Friday, I am guessing I will be dismissed but don't know if the police are involved.

Can I resign and avoid the disciplinary? If the police get involved will I be arrested? What will happen in court?

How difficult will it be to get another job? I am 29, my wife thinks I am on annual leave and I am barely keeping things together. I can't talk any friends or family, they would be appalled at what I have done. The money was spent on weekends away and car repairs, nothing extravagant.

Good morning, welcome to LB,

The amount is significant and I would be surprised if the police were not involved and that would be more likely in my opinion if you don't attend the disciplinary meeting.
Any sentence if this goes to court will be a matter or record which many prospective employers will check if cash handling is involved in a job.
I'm afraid that what you spent the money on will have no affect on the seriousness of the matter.
A summary of your questions arrest possible, court possible, avoiding the meeting imo unwise. Getting another job problematic, unlikely to have a reference from current employer hard to explain after 7 years employment.

I don't think it's wise to keep your wife in the dark over this but that is something only you can resolve.

nem

[Icarus2016]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Thanks for the reply. Looking online I have just confused myself. One site stated that theft of over £2000 is a prison sentence of 18 weeks!

Our company policy states that all employee theft will be reported to the police but in the years I have been employed I have never heard of this happening, surely others must have stolen in that time, I can't be the first.

Am I in denial to think that things aren't that serious and I can just resign and hope they don't report it?. I could just say I was travelling for a while. I can get another reference from a restaurant I work in on Saturday nights.

[Openlaw15]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Thanks for the reply. Looking online I have just confused myself. One site stated that theft of over £2000 is a prison sentence of 18 weeks!

Our company policy states that all employee theft will be reported to the police but in the years I have been employed I have never heard of this happening, surely others must have stolen in that time, I can't be the first.

Am I in denial to think that things aren't that serious and I can just resign and hope they don't report it?. I could just say I was travelling for a while. I can get another reference from a restaurant I work in on Saturday nights.

It sounds more like fraud than theft. I have taken the following from the Sentencing Council Guidelines for Fraud type offences. Fraud offences for the amount you had taken would seem to indicate anything from no sentence, 6 months, or a year's custody (at the bottom to top end, ie less serious to more serious types). At the middle, it could be a 6 months custody sentence and a fine. At the lower end it could be just a community order. The seriousness (culpability) has a bearing on things too, against you: may be held as abusing a position of trust, ie employed as a manager but you abused that trust. The other feature you have against you is that this fraud went on over an 18 month period, ie not an isolated incident. I think in your circumstances that when you attend the disciplinary (I would attend; I agree with Nemesis on this point), plead guilty and they may not report it to the police - especially as you've worked there for 7 years without hearing of any crimes being reported to the police. £2000 is a lot of money though. I would pay this back immediately if I were you.

[Sparkie1723]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Paying it back will help a little...........show deep concern and sorrow for what you have done will also help in most cases.
The amount is significant and that will be a hurdle that you face .........your fate rests with how your employer looks at it. I agree with everyone go to the disciplinary hearing.......staying away will most certainly go against you..........I am so sorry you are in this position and as all others will feel ....can only try and support you.
Sparkie

[wales01man]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Own up offer to repay it and tell your wife you will need her support through this

[Icarus2016]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Thanks. There is zero chance of me paying any money back. We have our first baby due in November and my wife has only ever held casual employment, professional positions within her field but all short term contracts so no maternity pay. How the mortgage will be paid after next week is a mystery right now. We have almost no savings and what little we do have is for the baby stuff.

I am so angry with myself. My brother in law is a Police Officer to make matters worse, we are very close and after this he might not be able to see me again. He will be gutted and my wife just won't understand, she will be devastated.

[seduraed]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

All I can say is ownup as quickly and thoroughly as possible. Hiding things will make them worse. Apprise grovel if necessary at the disciplinary.Take a colleague or a union rep with you.
I think the best outcome is no job and no criminal charges. I don't think you will even get a neutral reference. Make an arrangement to repay the money. I think you will have to become a stay at home dad and your wife will have to go out. Take any contact you can get.
Best of luck

[Anthony72]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Hi
If you are arrested , do not say anything without seeing the duty solicitor. It may be hard and the police may try to make it feel as if you do not trust them, it is your right.

As for sentencing , well it varies a lot on the circumstances and the charge, fraud by abuse of position leaps out at me. Although it went on for a long time, how many instances were there. What were the reasons?

A guilty plea at the earliest possibility gives an automatic discount on the sentence but take a lawyers advice on that. Mitigation would help , for example in danger of losing your home because you wife lost her job, alcoholism , drug problems etc

While I am not a lawyer and can not advise I would say that an early plea and some mitigation would not lead to a custodial sentence , maybe a community service order , probation.

The sum of 2000 is in reality not a huge sum and as you say they range from 250 to 800 I imagine there are not that many examples , say 5 or 6 . is that the case? The frequency will also affect the end result.

On the reference front, ask them at the disciplinary, some companies have a policy of only ever giving neutral references regardless. When I say do not tell the police you did it , I would still 'fess up at the disciplinary and apologise , if there are reasons , tell them but do not be defensive i.e. Well you were late paying my expenses - that wont go down well

Please talk to your wife and maybe your GP

[Diana M]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

I have been incredibly stupid. I was suspended from my job yesterday afternoon. I work for a major chain store on the shop floor, I am a shift manager.

The suspension is in relation to fraudulent refunds (I am guilty, no arguments there). The amounts total just over £2000 and cover a period of around 18 months. The individual amounts vary from £250 to £800. I processed refunds using genuine customer details but then took the cash myself.

I have worked for the company for 7 years and have no previous convictions, not even a parking ticket. I have been asked to attend a meeting next Friday, I am guessing I will be dismissed but don't know if the police are involved.

Can I resign and avoid the disciplinary? If the police get involved will I be arrested? What will happen in court?

I find your honesty and openness about this situation an encouraging starting point. I hope the legal system will too. Remorse carries weight in criminal proceedings when it comes to sentencing.

You say you've never done anything like this in your entire life so what prompted this moment of madness (albeit it lasted 18 months)?

You don't portray yourself as a career criminal so maybe something happened along the way? This is the sort of thing a Probation Officer will look at prior to any sentencing report (if things get that far).

If (and it's none of my business) this was triggered by personal problems such as alcohol or gambling or debt issues then enrolling in a help program to tackle the issue might help before this comes before a Judge (if it ever does).

I'm not familiar with disciplinary procedures but others have said that you should take someone with you and/or contact your union for support.

You say you work for a "major chain store". Maybe they won't want any negative publicity. It wouldn't look good on them if there were to be a story in the press about one of their Managers using/abusing their customers' confidential/personal financial details to perpetuate a potential fraud. They may be looking at damage limitation especially if any of those customers were to make a formal complaint.

Di

[Icarus2016]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Thanks. The total amount I have taken is just over £2000, it's £2200 to be exact. I have no explanation for it. I don't gamble, I am not depressed, we don't have any money worries (well no different than anybody else). I took the £800 to pay for a weekend away to London with my wife and some friends.

The first time was a genuine refund which I processed prior to a customer returning a faulty item. The money was waiting but the customer never showed up. Two weeks later, and after the monthly audits, the money was still sat there in my office, stupidly I took it, and nobody said anything, it just seemed like free money. So like a moron I did it again a few weeks later, but this time I just made up that a regular customer had returned a monthly order and forged their signature on the docket. I sort the stocktake anyway so covering up the missing returns was easy.

The whole thing just got out of hand. All our friends seem to have endless money, trips abroad, new cars, all that stuff. I just got tired of only ever managing to cover the bills with nothing left over, stupid I know. When the London trip was being discussed something in me just snapped I guess, I just wanted to feel "flush" for a change, so I took the money, I have no real excuse.

The seriousness of this is beginning to dawn on me now. I have always been so hard working, never claimed dole or anything. Since I was 17 I have worked full time, proud to be able to pay my own way. My brother in law was saying just last week how I should apply for the Police next time his force is taking on, he said I would have had a great chance of getting in (not now though) STUPID STUPID STUPID.

THIS WHOLE THING WILL BREAK MY WIFES HEART.

I have let her down so bad it kills me. When I think back to all the courses and training I have had over the years, all the contacts and knowledge I have of the industry, all means nothing now. I am not looking for sympathy, I did wrong, fair enough, I deserve what's coming.

[Diana M]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

THIS WHOLE THING WILL BREAK MY WIFES HEART.

I have let her down so bad it kills me.

Maybe she doesn't need to know about this problem yet?

You say she's (5 months?) pregnant with your first child so stressing her out right now may not be a good thing until you know your worst case scenario.

Di

[Openlaw15]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

Thanks. There is zero chance of me paying any money back. We have our first baby due in November and my wife has only ever held casual employment, professional positions within her field but all short term contracts so no maternity pay. How the mortgage will be paid after next week is a mystery right now. We have almost no savings and what little we do have is for the baby stuff.

I am so angry with myself. My brother in law is a Police Officer to make matters worse, we are very close and after this he might not be able to see me again. He will be gutted and my wife just won't understand, she will be devastated.

The employer could get a charging order as security against your home (if you own it), for the £2,000. If you have joint tenancy with your wife, you'll have to sever it. What made you think you could get a away with this? You're a manager, not the average employee. If the police get involve I suppose your main defence to a custodial sentence is that it is not in the public interest as you have a family to take care of and the welfare system ie DWP will have the financial burden of providing for your family in your absence. You are also a family man and it's not fair if your wife and children were to be deprived of their husband/ father just because of your foolishness. Certainly show deep remorse as this counts tremendously. Not only that but pleading guilty at the first hearing in theory anyway, should reduce your sentence (as you're saving the public system a trial, which is costly). Do you have any mental health problems? Are you in debt or other such pressures - if so, use these things as partial defence.

[Diana M]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

The employer could get a charging order as security against your home (if you own it), for the £2,000. If you have joint tenancy with your wife, you'll have to sever it.

Why?

Di

[Celestine]

Re: How much trouble am I in?

You already know you have done something incredibly foolish and have turned your life upside down through this inexplicable sequence of events.

However, you now have to face the consequences of this event and it is very clear that you are frightened and feel alone. You are always welcome here to share your thoughts, strategies and regrets here with us without judgment. We will always be sensible and supportive in finding the best solution.

Your best approach with your wife is to be as calm as possible but also to be honest with her. She is pregnant, not ill so (unless she has pregnancy complications) you should aim to sit down with her privately and be 100% honest and work out how you will recover from this as a family. How you deal with your wife will dictate how this will play out and her support and understanding is vital to finding the path back to normalcy.