Wrong defaults - urgent

[nouchkita2002]

Hi Celestine,
I just came across your website and read your thread about your sister and your interest in wrong defaults.
I am a Lloyds customer with my platinium current account and my business account with them.
Around year 2000 I applied for a gold credit card and took the insurance with it.
About a year after, I lost the card and Lloyds Bank Credit card services (Lloyds TSB) reissued the gold credit card for me I expected the insurance to be transferred with it but I was not aware that it was not transferred at this time. A while later during 2001/2002 I did a as is a straight upgrade to Platinum credit card meaning everything that was on the gold card should be on the Platinum card including the insurance.

When I was made redundant in 2003 I tried to claim for insurance to pay for the payments and they said that I had no insurance. I explained that I had insurance and don't understand why it had been cancelled.
I kept on explaining this to them every time they contacted me regarding payments but they rejected the case and forcefully took money out of my account as they said I had a Lloyds Current account and that they are entitled to do so. this went on till 17/07/2003 when I got a call from them again. I explained the situation but this time the lady on the phone said that she can see what's happened.

She said that it seems that when I reported the card lost and they reissued another card they did not transfer the insurance on it. Therefore when I upgraded to Platinum there was no insurance to be transferred to it. She said not to worry that she will sort it and get back to me. She called back within 10-15 minutes and said "sorry she can not do anything for me". I was surprised and said but you just said that its your (Lloyds Bank) fault. She replied that "she cant do anything for me".

I realised at that point that they knew all along but tried to avoid the situation and never told me exactly what happened until that day. She must have been told to leave the case alone.

I had tried to explain this to them all these years but no luck and all this time they have been taking money out of my account without my consent more than the minimum monthly payment.

I had no idea they have defaulted me as I thought they are still taking money out of my account until we applied for the mortgage.

All this time, I explained that all I wanted is for them to calculate the interest that has been charged whist I was unemployed, deduct it from the total and I will be happy to settle the rest, but this was always ignored.

I applied for a mortgage last month. Everything was supposed to be fine until I discovered that I had a default on my credit score! It came as a shock especially as this has been going on for all this time! They also sold my debt to a Debt Collector. Because of this, we are now going to lose our dream house as no one would give us a mortgage or not enough money to cover our the mortgage. It is wrecking our lives, our family. The debt’s amount is £4838. The default was put on 20/08/2012 and was sold to the debt collector starting on 01/11/2014.
What is my chance to either remove or move the date of the default for an earlier date as it was supposed to be and if yes, how long would it take? my family still hopes for a miracle to happen to get this house..... thank you

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

Hi Celestine,

Hi and welcome aboard

I'm not Celestine but I didn't want to just read'n'run. :bolt:

I just came across your website and read your thread about your sister and your interest in wrong defaults.
I am a Lloyds customer with my platinium current account and my business account with them.
Around year 2000 I applied for a gold credit card and took the insurance with it.
About a year after, I lost the card and Lloyds Bank Credit card services (Lloyds TSB) reissued the gold credit card for me I expected the insurance to be transferred with it but I was not aware that it was not transferred at this time. A while later during 2001/2002 I did a as is a straight upgrade to Platinum credit card meaning everything that was on the gold card should be on the Platinum card including the insurance.

When I was made redundant in 2003 I tried to claim for insurance to pay for the payments and they said that I had no insurance. I explained that I had insurance and don't understand why it had been cancelled.

On your statements you would have noticed that the monthly premium was no longer being charged.

I kept on explaining this to them every time they contacted me regarding payments but they rejected the case and forcefully took money out of my account as they said I had a Lloyds Current account and that they are entitled to do so.

Under the right of set off, bank can take money held in one account to make payments into another account if you fail to maintain your contractual payments.

this went on till 17/07/2003 when I got a call from them again. I explained the situation but this time the lady on the phone said that she can see what's happened.

She said that it seems that when I reported the card lost and they reissued another card they did not transfer the insurance on it. Therefore when I upgraded to Platinum there was no insurance to be transferred to it. She said not to worry that she will sort it and get back to me. She called back within 10-15 minutes and said "sorry she can not do anything for me". I was surprised and said but you just said that its your (Lloyds Bank) fault. She replied that "she cant do anything for me".

I realised at that point that they knew all along but tried to avoid the situation and never told me exactly what happened until that day. She must have been told to leave the case alone.

I had tried to explain this to them all these years but no luck and all this time they have been taking money out of my account without my consent more than the minimum monthly payment.

So this has been going on 12 years, the bank paying themselves for the credit card from your current account? :scared: And you didn't enter into a payment arrangement with Lloyds for the card and/or open a current account with another bank so you could regain control of your money. :noidea:

I had no idea they have defaulted me as I thought they are still taking money out of my account until we applied for the mortgage.

All this time, I explained that all I wanted is for them to calculate the interest that has been charged whist I was unemployed, deduct it from the total and I will be happy to settle the rest, but this was always ignored.

I applied for a mortgage last month. Everything was supposed to be fine until I discovered that I had a default on my credit score! It came as a shock especially as this has been going on for all this time! They also sold my debt to a Debt Collector. Because of this, we are now going to lose our dream house as no one would give us a mortgage or not enough money to cover our the mortgage. It is wrecking our lives, our family. The debt’s amount is £4838.

Any idea how much was outstanding in 2003 and how much has been taken out of your account since then?

The default was put on 20/08/2012 and was sold to the debt collector starting on 01/11/2014.
What is my chance to either remove or move the date of the default for an earlier date as it was supposed to be and if yes, how long would it take? my family still hopes for a miracle to happen to get this house..... thank you

If you stopped making contractual payments in 2003, I'd say all the elements of a default would have been there, even if they helped themselves to your money from your current account, that wasn't even an arrangement to pay. I should think you'd have grounds to argue the account should have been defaulted in 2003 which means the default should have dropped off six years ago!

[ostell]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

You say there was a business current account. Is the business sole trader or limited company?

[nemesis45]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

As I see it ( please correct me if I am wrong) you have been aware of payments being taken from your current account to pay this card?
But you have not properly challenged the bank about this apart from the phone calls stated?
It would be the account holders responsibility to ensure that the Insurance was continued / put in place. I suspect that as a card was " upgraded" the terms of any insurance would be changed.

My guess is the bank will say that you had ample time to check and dispute the money being debited and if it is the credit card default that is now causing problems you would have been sent a Default Notice warning you of the consequences of not remedying the status of the account.

I can only suggest you make a " Subject Access Request to the bank made under the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998 for all the " personal data the bank holds on you in relation to the account (s).

There is a £10 statutory fee to pay, and the bank has 40 days to comply, there is a template in the forum library for this.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

You say there was a business current account. Is the business sole trader or limited company?

It looks like the OP had both a personal and a business account.

Hi Celestine,
I just came across your website and read your thread about your sister and your interest in wrong defaults.
I am a Lloyds customer with my platinium current account and my business account with them.
Around year 2000 I applied for a gold credit card and took the insurance with it.
About a year after, I lost the card and Lloyds Bank Credit card services (Lloyds TSB) reissued the gold credit card for me I expected the insurance to be transferred with it but I was not aware that it was not transferred at this time. A while later during 2001/2002 I did a as is a straight upgrade to Platinum credit card meaning everything that was on the gold card should be on the Platinum card including the insurance.

The right of set off only applies to accounts held in the same capacity, if one of the accounts was a limited company account they couldn't offset from that account. I investigated this rather thoroughly when Barclays bought the Egg portfolio as I had (still have) an Egg card defaulted in 2010 and a business account with Barclays in the name of a limited company. :grin:

Having said that, the whole set off issue should have been addressed from the start, I'm not sure how much could be achieved 12 years later. :mmph: However, the OP's main issue seems to be the default and I'd say that the fact the bank resorted to set off back in 2003 should have been enough indication that the relationship had broken down which is the main criteria for recording a default. I don't know what the principles for reporting to the CRAs would have said back in 2003 but I'd still say the default shouldn't have been recorded 9 years after the relationship broke down. :rant:

I'd also be interested in finding out how much money the bank has been offsetting for the past 12 years and what the balance was in 2003 to start with :noidea: to see whether the £4k+ balance is justifiable. A SAR probably wouldn't go as far as 12 years, most banks only send data for the last six years.

This is a SAR letter I've used a few times: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...765#post382765 :thumb:

[nouchkita2002]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

If you stopped making contractual payments in 2003, I'd say all the elements of a default would have been there, even if they helped themselves to your money from your current account, that wasn't even an arrangement to pay. I should think you'd have grounds to argue the account should have been defaulted in 2003 which means the default should have dropped off six years ago!

Thank you for taking the time to read and to reply. We also paid £10 to have a request access my personal information. Lloyds says it should be ready by the 5th of September. We are hoping that they would send the written agreement of the 1st card which had the insurance ticked. They are treating it as a PPI which it is but they are missing the point of the fact that it is not I couldn't pay but that I kept asking them to review their mistakes, calculate the interest whislt I wasn't working and I would settle the rest. it's been years of the wall of china.!!!:tinysmile_cry_t:. Would you know how to approach them for them to move the date? thanks

[nouchkita2002]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

Hi Nemesis45

We have already asked for a subject Access Request. It should come anytime now (by the 5th of September apparently!). They kept ringing for late payment (harrassing me rather!!:ballchain. Kept explaining to them that I needed to have this reassessed but obviously it was no good!! I approached at some stage the Ombudsman but I that time to redirected me to Lloyds saying we had to deal with them first. I didn't know what to do and as they were helping themselves in my account, I assumed that as they had their money.......:-((

[nouchkita2002]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

Hi Ostell

I have a limited company and my personal account still active. At that time there wasn't a business account. Only a personal one!

[nouchkita2002]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

You say there was a business current account. Is the business sole trader or limited company?

I have a limited company and a personal account still active. Back then, no business account, only a personal one.

[nouchkita2002]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

"On your statements you would have noticed that the monthly premium was no longer being charged."

no I didn't. I can't check now as I haven't got a statement to prove it:tinysmile_cry_t:

"Under the right of set off, bank can take money held in one account to make payments into another account if you fail to maintain your contractual payments".
yes they did. with abusive phone calls.I always said that I wanted to pay providing they sort out my problem!
"So this has been going on 12 years, the bank paying themselves for the credit card from your current account? :scared: And you didn't enter into a payment arrangement with Lloyds for the card and/or open a current account with another bank so you could regain control of your money. :noidea:"
Nope! crazy hey?it has NEVER been about not being able to pay!
"Any idea how much was outstanding in 2003 and how much has been taken out of your account since then?"
No. I don't know. Not sure we kept statements that old as we moved house.

"If you stopped making contractual payments in 2003, I'd say all the elements of a default would have been there, even if they helped themselves to your money from your current account, that wasn't even an arrangement to pay. I should think you'd have grounds to argue the account should have been defaulted in 2003 which means the default should have dropped off six years ago![/QUOTE]"
Hope you are right...I just want to try to sort out this one by having the knowledge thanks to you guys and try to save time. I cannot get the mortgage now, nor remortgage and my family is in pieces......:tinysmile_cry_t::tinysmile_cry_t:

[nouchkita2002]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

The right of set off only app

Having said that, the whole set off issue should have been addressed from the start, I'm not sure how much could be achieved 12 years later. :mmph: However, the OP's main issue seems to be the default and I'd say that the fact the bank resorted to set off back in 2003 should have been enough indication that the relationship had broken down which is the main criteria for recording a default. I don't know what the principles for reporting to the CRAs would have said back in 2003 but I'd still say the default shouldn't have been recorded 9 years after the relationship broke down. :rant:

I'd also be interested in finding out how much money the bank has been offsetting for the past 12 years and what the balance was in 2003 to start with :noidea: to see whether the £4k+ balance is justifiable. A SAR probably wouldn't go as far as 12 years, most banks only send data for the last six years.

This is a SAR letter I've used a few times: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...765#post382765 :thumb:

Really?? We already sent for a SAR and we should receive the data by next week.!!!! 6 yrs ago?? nothing!!! so what else can we do? take a solicitor to fight our case?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

Really?? We already sent for a SAR and we should receive the data by next week.!!!! 6 yrs ago?? nothing!!! so what else can we do? take a solicitor to fight our case?

Let's see what you get with the SAR, some people have been lucky to get data older than six years, depending on the bank, etc. I've only ever got six years from different companies though.

The default issue would be a matter of contacting whoever is the debt collector who owns your account at the moment, who has recorded the very late default, and relaying the story you've posted up here, i.e. how the credit card was defaulted in 2003 and the bank just helped themselves to money from your current account. The default should have been recorded at that time and not when the account was sold 10 years later! :rant: You could also contact the CRAs themselves but they'd usually refer you back to the account holder. If you get no joy, then a complaint to the ICO would be your next step. This is all to do with the CRA side of things so you can get rid of the default and qualify for a mortgage. :thumb:

With regards to the alleged outstanding balance, if it has been sold on, then Lloyds will no longer be taking money from your accounts, I presume they are no longer doing it. :confused2: Are you still paying someone (the DCA)? From the SAR you could get an idea of how much was being taken every month but you'll need to have an idea how much you owed back in 2003 to figure out whether you could still owe over £4k! To me it sounds outrageous and I suspect they may have been adding interest and possibly charges to the defaulted account all these years. :mad2: I would like to say you would have cause for complaint to the FOS but I don't know what they'd say about something that arose in 2003 and nothing much was done in 12 years, unless of course I got it all wrong which is always a possibility. :mmph:

[nouchkita2002]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

Hi FlamingParrot

thanks again for replying. No, you didn't get it wrong!The balance was about £5k ish...then they took the money from the account.it went down to 4.7k then it went up to 4838. And yes, they added charges, interest etc...in 12 years??? what a rip off!!!.I can't believe 12 yrs has gone passed. It was like yesterday. I spoke to them over the years but it was always a dead end and I didn't know what else to do.....It's my other half who found all those info and this website

What is ICO? I only have 1 default. and no, I haven't paid anyone nor the DCA. Why would I pay them when I hadn't paid Lloyds to get me heard? I didn't realise at that time how much it would harm me. I kept saying I wanted to pay but they had to sort out their mistake!!:juge: Anyway, By CRA, you mean Experian?Do you think that the fact that Ombudsman is involved, it would have a stronger impact than with a solicitor?which is the quickest way? Lloyds owes us PPI big time too which I haven't claimed yet. I want this to be sorted 1st and compensation for the emotional stress and the loss we have incurred by not getting this house. well, unless we find 25/30k as another lender would give us a mortgage but their calculation is different and we are short of this amount.....We so want this house.......:doggieyes:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

Hi FlamingParrot

thanks again for replying. No, you didn't get it wrong!The balance was about £5k ish...then they took the money from the account.it went down to 4.7k then it went up to 4838. And yes, they added charges, interest etc...in 12 years??? what a rip off!!!.I can't believe 12 yrs has gone passed. It was like yesterday. I spoke to them over the years but it was always a dead end and I didn't know what else to do.....It's my other half who found all those info and this website

:scared: :scared: It sounds like the subject for a complaint, :rant: although I'm not sure what would be the outcome due to the time elapsed. :mmph:

What is ICO?

The Information Commissioner, responsible for overseeing CRA reporting: https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/credit/

I only have 1 default. and no, I haven't paid anyone nor the DCA. Why would I pay them when I hadn't paid Lloyds to get me heard? I didn't realise at that time how much it would harm me. I kept saying I wanted to pay but they had to sort out their mistake!!:juge: Anyway, By CRA, you mean Experian?

Experian is one of them, there's also Equifax and Callcredit (Noddle).

Do you think that the fact that Ombudsman is involved, it would have a stronger impact than with a solicitor?which is the quickest way?

If you want the default amended/removed you need to contact the DCA in the first instance and possibly the CRAs with the full account history, you don't need a solicitor and the Ombudsman idea was in relation to the whole shambles with the account and all the charges added rather than the default itself.

Lloyds owes us PPI big time too which I haven't claimed yet. I want this to be sorted 1st and compensation for the emotional stress and the loss we have incurred by not getting this house. well, unless we find 25/30k as another lender would give us a mortgage but their calculation is different and we are short of this amount.....We so want this house.......:doggieyes:

Claiming damages as a result of a wrongful default is a bit of a minefield, and there's also the fact this has been going on for 12 years... :ohwell:

[nemesis45]

Re: Wrong defaults - urgent

Personally I cannot see this going further after 12 year especially as the especially as it would be reasonable to expect the account holder to have monitored his/her accounts 12 years of money being debited unnoticed is I'm afraid not convincing, nor on reading though all this again can I see reason to amend or remove a default.

nem