slowly letting the cat out

[meellis]

I might be wrong (as usual) but I feel the govt are slowly letting us know how they are going to act on their promises and what their promises really are. With them promising to reduce welfare spending by £12billion I feel Camerons words today have spelt out what they are going to do. They also promised to increase the threshold before you pay tax and his statement today stated he wanted to stop this cycle of people paying tax one day to then be given it back the next day in benefits. So I can foresee those on working tax credits eventually losing them and then be told they are going to be ok because of tax cuts. If you think of it as simply as that though you realise you aren't saving any money you are just moving it from one budget to another but he also stated that he wants a country where earnings are higher so everybody has to pay less tax but on higher earnings. So here is the scenario the low paid gain £10 a week in tax cuts but lose £20 a week in tax credits hence saving the Govt money. We are worse of say the low paid but the govt will pull their normal trick of passing the buck and say well we have recommended that you get paid more but we are unable to make your employers do it so it is their fault you are worse off.

[seduraed]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

not it wont be the employers fault the tories wil twist in some way to make it the employees fault.

[meellis]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

Whoevers fault it will be their is one person who it won't be. Its been five years since Labour so they are running out of things to blame them for so it will either be us, the general public, or the lib dems because it was something they did in the last five years which the Tories were powerless to stop.

[Amethyst]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

he wanted to stop this cycle of people paying tax one day to then be given it back the next day in benefits

Completely agree with him I'm afraid.

Tax credit payments have supplemented wages for far too long. Basically you can earn anything and the govt makes it up to the £28k/£30k odd depending on circs of course - so employers don't need to increase wages and employees have no particular impetus to get a pay rise until they are over the £28k/£30k. I disagree with the system - I remember being astounded when it first came in - my husband at the time was on about £24k and I wasn't working - we were managing - it was hard but we were managing - we had quite a big increase in income suddenly and didn't have to do anything for it - remember thinking 'surely that can't be right'. I had three children under 5 at the time so it was very welcome of course. I quite often hold views that don't quite meet with my circumstances lol.

Now of course everyone is reliant on it because wages have stayed low and its made up by the tax credits, If someone gets reduced hours at work, or a pay cut - then they ring the tax credits and their money is increased and their take home ends up the same anyway. So cutting pay doesn't put employees in the poop enough for them to go find another better paid job which means there's no incentive on employers not to cut hours/pay. It has helped to subsidise businesses through the downturn but we're coming out of that now and changes do need to be made. How do we make employers increase pay ? increase NMW to at least the living wage.

I really don't know why they didn't just have different tax rates for circumstances ( like number of children etc) and tax less at source.... - but then they would have to have a separate benefit for very low paid and unemployed.

So going back from that is going to be incredibly difficult, and I have no idea how they should/could do it so I don't envy them having to think about changing the system. It is never going to be welcomed.

( don't quote me on the numbers there btw)

[Ruby]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

I bug bear of mine is when the govt. changed the rules for child benefit. A couple can earn 49K per annum each (ie. total household income 98K) and they would be entitled to child benefit but a couple where only one person works and earns eg. 50K (ie. total household income 50K) is NOT entitled to any child benefit!! I believe whoever came up with this idea fell down the stairs and bumped their head first when making this ridiculous rule.

[nemesis45]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

Certainly makes sense to me!

[Amethyst]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

Agree with you Ruby it is daft, and unfair, it should simply be a flat £50k household income loses child benefit.

[des8]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

Nem, you must remember when tax allowances included an amount for children, like what Ame suggests.
Some tried to plan the birth to fall just before end of the tax year so they'd get a whole years tax rebate!

[Amethyst]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

lol, I don't remember that long ago.... and anyway some people are completely bananas, although I expect they are the same people only having babies to get council houses ( ie. mainly mythical ) and tbh that system sounds completely bonkers too.... everything should be done in real time these days - there's not really any excuse for it not to be.

[meellis]

Re: slowly letting the cat out

Ame, I agree that it is stupid taking the money one way and then giving it back another should be corrected. What I don't agree with is the issue that they have spun the issues before the election and made it sound as though the fat layabout who doesn't want to work is the person they are targeting whereas the person who is getting hurt the most with this is probably a lot of unaware voters who didn't realise that a vast amount of the welfare budget goes to them and it is only a minority that goes to the fat layabout. Instead of coming out with the policies he is dressing it all up so people do not realise what they are up to until now when they are in control. I can see them piling on all the real brutal cuts asap so that they can change things nearer the next election to buy the votes again. What really needs to be looked at is not the minimum wage but why it is so expensive to live here now and when people mention about the child benefit limits and other limits we all have to ask not only why is it unfair but also why these people actually need to except it. I know of multi millionaires who except some of these things, not because they need them but because they feel they have earned them. I know there is the argument they contributed so they have earned them but that doesn't mean they have to except them and a family who is desperate for child benefit when they are earning more than £50,000 however they earn it are really living above their means especially when there are other hard working families having to survive on half of that.