NHS cuts

[charitynjw]

http://www.38degrees.org.uk/Save-our-NHS

Quote:
", no one voted for wards to be closed and private companies to be brought in. During the election, David Cameron kept telling us that the NHS was "safe in his hands". [2] But now, the government is pushing through extreme changes relying on support from right-wing hardliners and private health companies. [3]

Every one of us has been touched by the NHS. It's there at the start and end of most of our lives. It's something we can rely on to care for us and the people we love. It isn't perfect, but it is worth standing up for - and now, we need to stand up for it, or we could lose it forever."

[2] David Cameron: Tories are the party of the NHS - Telegraph
[3] Cuts to NHS services are already happening across the country. East Lancashire Hospital could lose over 1,000 jobs, and over 6,000 posts are at risk across the 53 mental health trusts. Barts and the London NHS Trust could lose 600 posts. Hull and East Yorkshire Hospitals NHS Trust could lose over 500 jobs. Other NHS services at risk include Wirral Hospital, which is cutting 682 jobs, and Royal Devon and Exeter is planning to shed over 1,000 jobs. Read more at http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/feb/23/nhs-to-lose-50000-jobs
[4] Blogs


What do you guys think? (& girls, of course - I didn't mean to suggest that girls don't think! :biggrin1: )

[leclerc]

Re: NHS cuts

Private companies have been working in the NHS under Labour so to state we didn't vote for it is nonsense. Ward closures happen to save money, not just on staff, but drugs used on the ward, to supplies bought in for the maintenance of the ward.

[Sapphire]

Re: NHS cuts

Get rid of the over paid 'managers' and use the to pay for more nurses and cleaning staff. Stop funding certain procedures and use the money for research to prolong life threatening illnesses, and stop treating health tourists and take their passports away until they have paid their sodding bill, you'd be amazed how much money is owed to us by people from abroad who come over here for treatment, then when they are better pish off back home without paying.

[leclerc]

Re: NHS cuts

Get rid of the over paid 'managers' and use the to pay for more nurses and cleaning staff. Stop funding certain procedures and use the money for research to prolong life threatening illnesses, and stop treating health tourists and take their passports away until they have paid their sodding bill, you'd be amazed how much money is owed to us by people from abroad who come over here for treatment, then when they are better pish off back home without paying.

Saffy, re the cleaning staff, most are paid privately, ie that a tender is made to the NHS and then they give them a budget for the 5 years of the contract or 7 years contract for them to spend.

Managers are effectively there to get patients beds, ie a bed manager rather than ringing round every single ward which is time consuming. Matrons these days run a number of wards are as such managers.

Salaries is the highest expenditure within the NHS which is why the easiest way to save money is to reduce staffing and closing wards even if it is only for a few months can save huge amounts of money.

[Sapphire]

Re: NHS cuts

Closing wards and reducing staff doesn't help people when they are sick, I understand the need to save money but it should be done by reducing the costs, ie employ their own cleaners and not outsource it, by employing their own they can pay each one say £7 hour instead of paying ie £5.60 hour plus a premium to the cleaning complany, say the company gets hmmmm £2 per hour per cleaner on top, that all adds up and all those £2's can be used to fund the wards and staff, (hopefully I've explained that clearly lol), all this is doing is putting the nations health at risk.

[leclerc]

Re: NHS cuts

Closing wards and reducing staff doesn't help people when they are sick, I understand the need to save money but it should be done by reducing the costs, ie employ their own cleaners and not outsource it, by employing their own they can pay each one say £7 hour instead of paying ie £5.60 hour plus a premium to the cleaning complany, say the company gets hmmmm £2 per hour per cleaner on top, that all adds up and all those £2's can be used to fund the wards and staff, (hopefully I've explained that clearly lol), all this is doing is putting the nations health at risk.

I'm not on £5.60 an hour, saffy. I'm on over £7.00 an hour which is pretty good for a cleaning job. Saffy, cleaning jobs at Addebbrokes(there are jobs going there currently) are paid at £6.97 per hour when you start.

[Sapphire]

Re: NHS cuts

Bloody hell I was only using those figures as an example, so start again then, they pay you £7 hour, the company charges approx £9-£10 hour thats a difference of £2-£3 hour, add up all those £2 - £3 hour charges and that money could then go in the pot which would then serve to keep the wards open and pay for nurses etc.

[leclerc]

Re: NHS cuts

Bloody hell I was only using those figures as an example, so start again then, they pay you £7 hour, the company charges approx £9-£10 hour thats a difference of £2-£3 hour, add up all those £2 - £3 hour charges and that money could then go in the pot which would then serve to keep the wards open and pay for nurses etc.

They don't charge the NHS cos they have been paid in advance ie at the start of the contract. Only when there are increases in Trust pay do they get more money.

[Sapphire]

Re: NHS cuts

Ok, you win, I can't be arsed to argue, but its still remains that money can be saved otherways rather than by closing wards and putting peoples lives at risk.

[leclerc]

Re: NHS cuts

Ok, you win, I can't be arsed to argue, but its still remains that money can be saved otherways rather than by closing wards and putting peoples lives at risk.

Lives are never put at risk. No patient is left without a bed. The hospital I work in closed a ward for 3 months to save £1 million but no patient was booted out of the hospital. They were transferred to other wards. Patient live are the number 1 priority of the NHS so even if wards are closed no patients lives will be put at risk if they enter a UK hospital.

[Sapphire]

Re: NHS cuts

Don't talk such rollocks, of course lives are put at risk, every day there are cases of babies being born in waiting rooms, patients being left on trolleys for hours on end, and dementia patients being left starving and dehydrating and even dying because of it, and why's that do you ask, well I'll tell you, its because the NHS is hemorraging money right, left and bloody centre, hospitals are being run by inadequate, inept pen pushers who have mostly had a frontal lobotomy and who cannot balance the books and who think that to read a set of accounts is like taking a book out of the childrens section of the local library, these people think that having a degree qualifies them to run these institutions, (we both have degrees), but you and I both know that getting a degree and working in the real world are totally different things, just like when you learn to drive you are taught to pass a test, then you learn to drive, and don't get me started on the friggin libraries grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[leclerc]

Re: NHS cuts

Don't talk such rollocks, of course lives are put at risk, every day there are cases of babies being born in waiting rooms,
patients being left on trolleys for hours on end, and dementia patients being left starving and dehydrating and even dying because of it, and why's that do you ask, well I'll tell you, its because the NHS is hemorraging money right, left and bloody centre, hospitals are being run by inadequate, inept pen pushers who have mostly had a frontal lobotomy and who cannot balance the books and who think that to read a set of accounts is like taking a book out of the childrens section of the local library, these people think that having a degree qualifies them to run these institutions, (we both have degrees), but you and I both know that getting a degree and working in the real world are totally different things, just like when you learn to drive you are taught to pass a test, then you learn to drive, and don't get me started on the friggin libraries grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Babies being born in waiting rooms is not as a result of cuts in the NHS. Patients being left on trolleys for hours on end is not because of cuts in the NHS. Dementia patients being left starving and dehydrating is not because of cuts in the NHS.
There are cuts in staffing levels, there are cuts in things like expenses(you have to cut them things out) but patient care is NOT leading to deaths.
I have yet to see a death caused by NHS cuts. I have heard in the newspapers of deaths caused by human error/mistake but not directly because of NHS cuts.

Find me an example(please don't use the Daily Mail cos it will take me ages to repudiate it and find the right story .


I should add that the original topic of the thread is about future cuts rather than past cuts so hypothetically, cuts in staffing has the effects your talking about but practically that does not happen. Patient care is absolutely key to the NHS and cuts are being achieved by freezing pay, natural wastage, ie not replacing nursing staff when they leave or retire. I haven't seen the effect of NHS cuts on the ability of nursing staff to care for patients.

[Sapphire]

Re: NHS cuts

Oh Natts of course the cuts are affecting the care that the patients get, the nurses are run ragged and cannot cope with the level of work that they have to do. We have an acute shortage of midwives (ok not solely to do with the cuts) but the midwives we do have cannot cope with the amount of births.
The nurses in the dementia wards are short staffed, they don't have time to sit and feed the patients, who in turn are unable or unwilling to either feed themselves or pour themselves a drink, those patients have trays of food in front of them and if they don't have a relative or visitor to help them then they starve, plain and simple hun its true, I've seen it with my own eyes a few years ago, my uncle would go into hospital at breakfast, lunch and dinner just to make sure my auntie was fed properly.
Ok you may say that there's errors, but all these things combined with lack of fund do mean that people are sufferring/dying and thats what the saddest part.
I'm sorry I've had a rant but this is something thats so close to my heart, its pure wickedness and the only way to cure this is to stop the heamorraging of funds and get more staff and wards not close them.

[enaid]

Re: NHS cuts

I have had my fair share of hospital visiting and taking family members for appoinments etc over the last few years. I have also witnessed and unfortunately been involved in the so called after care that is provided. My experience has been nothing short of frustrating, upsetting and on the whole leaving me with a very bad taste in my mouth concerning the NHS and care of the elderly.
Cost cutting may or may not be the total reason for their failure (imho) to offer a better care system for the elderly, but every other word that comes from all deparments involved with the elderly is cost related.
From my experience of hospitals there is a lot of dead wood and I certainly never witnessed an overworked nurse on any of my visits (the visits were not set times so no excuses on that score). I hold my hands up it is not a job I could or would wish to do, but I do think there are many employed by the NHS that feel that way too.

[Sapphire]

Re: NHS cuts

Yep I'll go with that also, 8 years ago my OH's dad was taken into Newham Hospital, we waited over 2 hours for him to be seen by X-Ray department, in the end I myself went and investigated and where were the staff...... sitting on their fat backsides, eating a takeaway and watching the footie, disgusting.

On the other hand, I found a lump 10 days ago, I have since been in, had tests and biopsies and am going back next Thursday for the results, I was treated wonderfully and in fact have just received a big bunch of daffodils from one of the staff, ok she's also my neighbour and a friend, I am more than happy by the way I've been treated in that hospital, I've been there many times and have always had a good experience in there, perhaps I am visiting the right departments.