Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

**Jester** · 25th July 2008, 11:50:AM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

I've had the displeasure of communicating by snail-mail with this muppet (No I am not going to retract that assertion).

The one thing that struck me is that the guy is completely out of touch with the real world. If these politicians took the time to actually speak to the people who are in the front line (i.e. the DWP staff at job centres) they would soon realise that they have the whole thing totally arse about face and pointing in the wrong direction.

They are only concerned with SHORT TERM targets.

With the credit crunch biting, there are more and more people becoming unemployed. This is changing from a trickle to a flood. Unfortunately, these new unemployed people are going to find that all the taxes they have paid through the years will count for nothing as they will get very little off the state to help them through the hard times. It should be that if you haven't paid into the system then you get nothing out of it. Unfortunately, the way it works is that the LESS you have paid into the system, the MORE you get. This practically encourages people to live off benefits. The ones who genuinely want to work are left homeless and penniless (because the system can't afford to give them anything) whilst the bone idle get evrything and spend all day doing whatever they want.

Sure, make the long-term unemployed work for their benefit. Does he really think that hard-line scroungers and drug addicts (for example) are going to bother turning up for this work ?

Yeah, stop their benefits if they don't turn up. Then the DWP will find themselves guilty of transgressing the Human Rights Act (there's plenty of evidnce of this already - look at that convicted terrorist in London who is getting thousands in benefits per MONTH due to the Human Rights Act).

Admirable initiative though it is, it is doomed to failure due to the ignorance of politicians such as this about what REALLY happens at ground level. If he wants to start a policy that is effective, then try speaking to people who actually know what they are talking about on these matters, not the spin doctors that Labour love so well.

Still, given the latest by-election results, this guy will soon be unemployed himself. Perhaps then he might start understanding what life is like at the 'sharp end' !!

Oooh...rant over. My blood is still boiling over something that happened this morning with Dell.. Can you tell ? LOL

**theGobbyOne** · 25th July 2008, 12:51:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

Well in principal I actualy agree with this guy................In the current system 7% of claimants are drug addicts/alcoholics so in effect every tax payer in the country is funding their habits so we may as well go out and score for them and cut out the middle man.........I know people who have been on benefits all their lives and never worked and actually think I am mad for going to uni and stuggling financially when I could in effect be well off on benefits!!!!!!!!!
I also know that some peeps do genuinely run into financial difficulties and have no option but to rely on state handouts and I suspect it is this minority who would be more than willing to 'work' for their benefits. This counrty has gone to the dogs and its way way too late to try and change things so radically............The Human Rights Act is also to BLAME for much of this and it should be scrapped but I dont think we have a politician strong enough to do it. Put me in charge I could do a better job....lol

**Amethyst** · 25th July 2008, 13:22:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

7 % ?? I'm sure they'd rather not be drug addicts or alcoholics.

I'm not well off on benefits either. I survive, just.

Litter picking ? How much like a second class citizen and completely worthless would that make people feel. Good plan.

**Jester** · 25th July 2008, 13:25:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

I agree. Not everyone on benefits is a scrounger. Many are there through no fault of their own because of circumstance (Hell, I'm one myself having found myself unemployed - I'd love to work but as yet haven't been successful). But we do all know the 'scrounger' types. Unfortunately, there are plenty of them milking the system for one reason or another. That's why I mentioned the fact that these politicians should try talking to DWP staff in the front line. They can quite easily identify the true 'scroungers' cos they deal with them on a regular basis

I acknowledge that many have no choice, but a lot DO.

It's the system that is wrong.

**theGobbyOne** · 25th July 2008, 14:57:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

Ame and Jester I wasnt tarring everyone with same brush and I know that you lot are as genuine as the day is long................I was reffering to the peeps who have a choice to work but choose not to...........If i was on benefits i wouldnt be strugling with rent council tax etc etc as it would be apid for and I certainly know that the basic rate of benefit is pants. I also personally have knowledge of peeps who are drug adicts and alcoholics claiming benefits and DLA etc etc and use it to fund their habits so it is open to abuse and yes Ame you are right in saying that you are sure that they dont want to be addicts but they have a choice and if they really wanted to they could kick the habit....My 1st hubby was a heroin addict and kicked it and my father is an alcoholic who hasnt had a drink for many years and i know numerous other peeps who have kicked addiction so for the main it is a choice.........I smoke but if i was down to my last few quid and it was a choice between food for kids or fags then I know which I would choose and you would too................Anyways just wanted to put the record straight and I certainly am not tarring every benefit claimant with the same brush.

P.S. Me and my big gob...............Didnt read his plans before I posted...............Some of it makes sense but yes Ame you are right some of his suggestions are degrading hun.

**Amethyst** · 25th July 2008, 15:06:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

oops rant xx

**Jester** · 25th July 2008, 15:35:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

Gobby - Neither Ame nor I were suggesting that you were tarring anyone with the same brush !!

Like Ame, I am finding that the DWP and the benefits system is really frustrating.

The less you work, the more help you can get. If that is the difference between having a roof over your head and something for the kids to eat, then one will adjust to enable that to happen.

The problem is that some people see that as a career choice.

I don't. I want to work and am trying hard to find a job. The problem is that I cannot accept just any job that comes my way as I have a rather large mortgage to take care and a slew of other debts, some of which are currently being looked after by payment protection. If I accept the minimum wage jobs that the DWP are trying to push me into, I will simply drown in an even worse sea of debt that I am currently already in. The DWP can't see that though, they just have targets that must be met and so try to push you into ANY type of work.

What they don't understand is that most employers will not employ me for those sort of jobs. No matter how much I might hide it, when it comes to interview time they ask what I have been doing for the last 23 years. When they realise that I have been designing multi-million dollar IT systems for some of the largest companies on the planet, they are instantly scared of me.

Can you blame them ? Would you employ someone who has a wealth of experience that far outstrips what you have ? Quite naturally you'd be concerned that that person would soon be showing his worth and getting YOUR job. I can't win. I am either under-qualified or over qualified. It's catch-22. But the DWP with their 'rules & regulations' cannot see or understand that.

This is what bugs me when politicians such as the supposedly 'Right Honourable James Purnell' come with these hair-brained schemes without realising the full implications of what they are proposing or that it's not a case of 'one cap fits all'. If things really were that simple then it would have been solved long ago.

What I do know is that it won't be solved by politicians such as this who have no grasp of what the real world is all about. It's fine for the likes of him to claim tens of thousands of pounds to furnish their second homes from the public purse, but it is not right for anyone unfortunate enough to find themselves out of work to have enough money to live on ?

**scoobydoo** · 25th July 2008, 22:39:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

The main thing is that you all agree the system needs reform - but it wont be easy.

I think the facts are that if the false and ungenuine claimants were eliminated there would be more money for those in genuine need .

And yes My family have been on benefits during the last house price crash.

An interesting case was in the USA I think were they gave 12 months notice of withdrawing certain benefits including housing assistance to teenage mothers- saying in effect the families would have to support them - the teenage pregnacy rate I believe dropped considerably.

Now I am not saying the states should be a model for us ( although zero tolerance in NY seems to work) but it is an example of how things can be changed.

**righty** · 10th September 2008, 16:34:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

So let me understand because a minority abuse the system (bit like the MP's I should say) you should punish all benefit claimants

Great plan & has anyone here filled in a DLA application recently. 39 pages designed to catch the unwary & uneducated............ or elderly

**Amethyst** · 10th September 2008, 16:46:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

This whole country is aimed at a minority, we arent all stupid without an ounce of common sense.

**righty** · 10th September 2008, 17:27:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

Ame don't understand you comment. Please expand

Te reiterate my position.

These schemes, only intended to gain the maximum media attention for the proposer are directed against a section of the populace who have no real voice or are able to defend themselves, & usually result in the bathwater being thrown out with the baby so that the disadvantaged suffer even more than the so called scroungers

**scoobydoo** · 10th September 2008, 18:21:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

I think you are missing the point Righty

What we are saying is if the system is open to abuse - and that is the question- then if the loopholes were closed then those who were in dire need could be allocated more money.

It is a question really - are those who are receiving help and who genunely need it - do they feel they are getting enough help?

how many of us know people who are abusing the system?

Is it widespread or is this rumours banded about by the media?

We are just having a discussion here.

Also dont nderstand your point about critisim of people unable to defend themselves? Everyone is entitled to a vote - and get involved in trying to change things .

I personally am very disturbed to see how some areas of this country have become and would like to learn more about what could be done to help. Ok maybe nothing may be done - but you never know there may be answers out there.
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By the way I do agree about the forms for the elderly - y parents get very confused and are afraid to ask for help. Even when I offer they are determined to try and do it on their own.

**righty** · 10th September 2008, 18:37:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

I don't agree I'm missing the point. Of course the system is open to abuse as is any system but it's not a widespread as it's made out to be. It just makes good copy for the press & allows politicians to grab the limelight on an issue no one will defend

To say they can vote to change things........pleeeas they usually have much more important things (as far as the are concerned) to think about like paying the rent the mortgage & putting food on the table.

Lets not forget why this site is here

Also I have worked with & on behalf of the disadvantaged many on benefits & I can tell you from my many years experience many, many claimants don't get their full entitlement particularly the elderly & disabled

Also a great many of the so called 'benefit cheats' are not cheats at all.

They have made the mistake of claiming the WRONG benefit & there has been no actual loss to the Exchequer yet the are still prosecuted all without the benefit of legal counsel who understands that any unclaimed benefit can be offset against that claimed & if there is no increase they are not guilty of any criminal offence

The DWP are of course fully aware of this but it makes their figures to look good to to able to claim they are cracking down on cheats....... How do I know about their attitude towards claimants because I too have my sources in the DWP

**scoobydoo** · 10th September 2008, 18:51:PM

Re: Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

Great thats what I wanted to hear an informed opinion. Your posts sometimes come over as very provocative - do you shout a lot in every day life?

By the way are you watching the paralympics? There are certainly some young people who are glowing examples.

I agree the system is too complicated - if it was simplified then there would not be so many mistakes.

Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

Welfare Reform - No One Written Off

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