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RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds OFT Test Case

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  • RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds OFT Test Case

    BBC NEWS | Business | Bank plans for overdraft refunds

    Bank plans for overdraft refunds



    By Ian Pollock
    Personal finance reporter, BBC News


    The RBS NatWest may have to pay out millions if it loses the test case


    The RBS NatWest bank is planning to refund overdraft fees to customers "pro-actively" if it loses the continuing test case over bank charges.
    An internal bank document reveals for the first time the preparations banks are making should they lose their case.
    The document acknowledges the group may have to refund past charges, which could run to many millions of pounds.
    The bank said it was just drawing up contingency plans to deal with one possible outcome of the test case.
    Refunds
    The RBS NatWest is waiting, with seven other banks, for an Appeal Court judgement on whether or not the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) can decide if their overdraft charges are unfair.
    All customer accounts that are due a refund will be calculated as accurately as possible


    RBS/NatWest


    The bank document, passed to the BBC, indicates that many customers can expect refunds if the banks eventually lose their case.
    It says a team from the bank is "preparing systems and processes to pro-actively refund charges to the group's customer base."
    The bank currently has about 13 million customers, though not all will have been charged overdraft fees in the past few years.
    "All customer accounts that are due a refund will be calculated as accurately as possible," the bank document says.
    "Any monies will be accurately accounted for and reconciled," it adds.
    The document says the bank aims for "avoidance of group reputational damage and/or loss of funds."
    Contingency plan
    An RBS spokesman denied the bank was planning to throw in the towel if it lost the current appeal.
    He said its plans simply reflected the fact that it was obliged by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) to deal "efficiently and swiftly" with the customers' complaints if it eventually lost the legal argument.
    "This work stream has absolutely no bearing on how we see the outcome of the test case," he said.
    "With an organisation of our size and our different brands, complying with these requirements demands careful contingency planning and this document merely confirms that RBS is taking its obligations in this respect seriously as it has done throughout the whole test case process," he added.
    Sharon Coleman of the campaign group Legal Beagles said: "We would welcome a pro-active approach if they intend resolving the matter without further appeals."
    "Consumers have become increasingly frustrated by the apparent lack of progress in the test case, especially those affected by financial difficulty," she added.
    Unfair?
    For the past three years the UK's banks have been besieged by hundreds of thousands of angry customers aided by high-profile internet and media campaigns.
    The customers have been demanding the return of high charges, levied by the banks whenever customers go overdrawn without permission.
    In 2007, eight financial institutions and the OFT agreed to stage a test case in the High Court to resolve the legal issues.
    At that point all cases in the county courts, and with the Financial Ombudsman, were suspended.
    The first round of High Court hearings, earlier this year, was a defeat for the banks.
    Mr Justice Andrew Smith ruled that the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) had the power, under the 1999 Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCR), to decide if the banks' charges were fair or not. A subsequent appeal was heard in October and the judgement is now expected in the New Year. An analysis of the 2007 annual reports for the five biggest banks suggested that up until the summer of that year, all UK banks had between them paid out £784m in refunds to nearly 378,000 customers.
    Last edited by Amethyst; 2nd December 2008, 10:06:AM.

  • #2
    Sharon Coleman of the campaign group Legal Beagles said: "We would welcome a pro-active approach if they intend resolving the matter without further appeals." "Consumers have become increasingly frustrated by the apparent lack of progress in the test case, especially those affected by financial difficulty," she added.



    An RBS spokesman denied the bank was planning to throw in the towel if it lost the current appeal.
    He said its plans simply reflected the fact that it was obliged by the Financial Services Authority (FSA) to deal "efficiently and swiftly" with the customers' complaints if it eventually lost the legal argument.
    "This work stream has absolutely no bearing on how we see the outcome of the test case," he said.
    "With an organisation of our size and our different brands, complying with these requirements demands careful contingency planning and this document merely confirms that RBS is taking its obligations in this respect seriously as it has done throughout the whole test case process," he added.




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    • #3
      Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

      This is Money article now -> RBS to proactively refund bank charges | This is Money

      Marc Gander of the Consumer Action Group said: 'The news that they may proactively repay people has to be welcomed, but I'm also worried by the idea that they will calculate these repayments themselves as they inevitably won't do it properly. 'We also have to ask how far back will they go? If banks lose the High Court case – and they will – it can be argued that reclaims should go back to 1995 when the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations came in and not just six years as many are claiming.'
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      • #4
        Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

        Originally posted by Amethyst View Post
        This is Money article now -> RBS to proactively refund bank charges | This is Money

        Marc Gander of the Consumer Action Group said: 'The news that they may proactively repay people has to be welcomed, but I'm also worried by the idea that they will calculate these repayments themselves as they inevitably won't do it properly. 'We also have to ask how far back will they go? If banks lose the High Court case – and they will – it can be argued that reclaims should go back to 1995 when the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations came in and not just six years as many are claiming.'
        I agree.

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        • #5
          Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

          Aye I do, when I spoke to Ian Pollock yesterday we discussed the limitations act a little and said the banks probably, if they acted as RBS have suggested, would only go to six years and that if they did so it would likely be challenged in court under limitations act. We also discussed compensatory interest and concerns over the right amounts being calculated. I do think as in the document RBS have put quite an emphasis on accurate calculation they realise that inaccuracy could be seen as dodging repayments and would very quickly get picked up on and cost them much more in the long run in court fees.
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          • #6
            Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

            The story is yet another non entity story. ALL banks will work on their systems in case the Bank Charges case goes against them. They cannot simply say, "oh well, I guess we will have to spend MONTHS working out how to police this system". They have had 2 years or more to get a system in place adequate enough to deal with Bank Charges claims and they have a fairly good centralised team who deal with PPI claims as do other banks. The OFT test case was announced in July 2007 so the initial transitional stage is over and the dealing with claims bit is ongoing. Recent headlines announcing "It's a draw 2:2" would have started the intial planning stages of anything like this. NOT to do this would be bigger news IMHO. "Banks in chaos over losing the OFT test case" could have been a potential future story. Another not very interesting story emerges.

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            • #7
              Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

              Just to clarify my view which I think the Telegraph have done more eloquently than me,
              A banking source said: “I’d be very surprised if this meant RBS was planning to throw in the towel on overdraft charges. The wording of the FSA’s waiver actually stipulates that banks must be ready and prepared to deal with customers once the case is resolved – whoever wins.
              “Even if RBS is fast becoming the ‘peoples bank’, getting legal certainty on overdraft charges is critical for them and the rest of the industry, so I think they will see the legal process through.”



              Overdraft charges: RBS prepares ground for 'proactive' refunds - Telegraph

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

                They are being misled as document is being misquoted in the piece:

                ''The RBS document says a team from the bank is “preparing systems and processes to proactively refund charges to the group’s customer base.”

                It wasn't a team from the bank but a team from the OFT.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

                  Originally posted by natweststaffmember View Post
                  They cannot simply say, "oh well, I guess we will have to spend MONTHS working out how to police this system".

                  Oh thats exactly what I thought they would do.
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                  • #10
                    Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds

                    Look at the bright side. THe banks loose either way. This means that if they pay the wrong amount they are you know. Then if they do not pay same thing.
                    If you have any sort of problems with bailiffs. I can help you as i am a self proclaimed specialist at dealing with them. I am hopefully going to start a degree (law) from october. If you think my posts are helpful or are guiding you in the right direction do show your appreciation by giving me a green blob.

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                    • #11
                      Re: RBS - Bank plans for overdraft refunds OFT Test Case

                      In light of Nick Cleggs comments ( Liberal Democrats reply to Bank Charges open letter - MoneySavingExpert.com Forums ) that the Lib Dems will push for proactive 'automatic' refunding of charges on the conclusion of the test case these are the docs which the bbc story on this thread was based on.

                      Also as part of the waiver conditions 2007 the banks were obliged top start organising systems to deal with the outcome and processing complaints.

                      (1) In accordance with its obligations under SYSC and other requirements, the firm should make records of relevant charges complaints available to the FSA on request, make preparations for dealing with them when this direction ends and update those preparations as the outcome of the test case becomes clearer.
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