OFT Test Case Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

[EXC]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Hmm, why would it be subject to the six year limitation?

Thats for claims founded in contract and if the claims is being bought under the UTCCR its not being bought under the contract in the same way as a penalty claim would be (I think?)

Oh and if you are claiming you made the payments under amistake then sec 32 1.c applies i think.

JMHO

glenn

You may well be right Glenn. We're in assumptionsville.

[Ladidi]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Hi everyone,

I am in need of something to say to Barclays. They are costing us a fortune. We pay for things via a card payment with funds in the bank account it is taken there and then so this payment cannot be spent again.

The person we are paying is paid something like 3 days later. The bank keeps charging us for this. In the past 3 months alone they have taken between £00 and £400 quid. It is a flamin lot in this current climate.

On top of charging us for these so called guaranteed payments they then charge for bounced payments and commission. We are getting peeved to say the least.

How can the bank justify taking money for something you have already paid for? How can they say that they guaranteed to payment when you paid with fund in your account and it was paid there and then on that day and goes off to the banks suspense account until it is claimed for them to say we guaranteed this payment.

I argue I cannot psend what is not in my account. How can you be guaranteeing something that was already taken and paid 3 days before hand.

It si close to christmas and with only one salary now comeing in and mortgages and bills to paid and them taking every time I spend what is in my account and having th audacity to charge me for something that was already paid several days earlier is getting boyond the joke and past the case of being 21st century robin hood stealing from the rich to give to the poor they are stealing formt he poor to give to the flaming already rich...gggrrrrr

Anyone know what I can say to them?????

Ladidi

[righty]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

There's not a lot you can say.............yet

I would recommend that you speak to your local Credit Union as some can offer the same facilities as a bank DD etc & they won't charge you if you make a mistake

[Ladidi]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Cheers Righty,

I have contacted Barclays and filed a complaint and argued with the Manager that if you are spending available funds on your card that money has already left your account and the person who you have bought your goods off comes to take the money from their suspense account 2 or 3 days later and says thanks very much for holding that for me and takes what has been agreed for purchase. I argue nothing has been guaranteed as there is nothing to guarantee as I have spent what is available. I then state if I tried to purchase shopping on a card payment with no money in my account and the bank decides to honour this for me then I would owe the bank for guaranteeing a payment I know I cannot make there and then and a payment is due for this service. BUT as I DO NOT have this service I do not owe Barclays for transactions that have not been carried out.

They have even been bouncing my direct debit payments when clearly there is money in my account!!! Am i to pay for their errors??? Hell yes, they go into my acocunt and help their selves. I argue do you mind if I go into your branch and go through your doors and say hey I could do with some extra money today and take it out of their tills..hell I would see jail before you could even say dont bother passing go and collecting your £200..

Best the Manager could offer me...I will file a complaint, they will get in touch with you in 5 working days!!

Complaint filed, we now await their lenghty and long worded/winded out come which shows them to be the nights in shining armour and I`m a lousy so and so..

Oh and I did say to the Manager that I thought they were doing nothing short of scamming their customers for more money in their so called new moves that they deem as in the best interests of their customers..I pointed out how they do their scam to the manger. I said I make a payment on a Monday out of my £200 available funds, paying £50 over the telephone foa bill or whatever. I get a refernce number and date and time this was paid and agreed. 3 days later they take their money, but Barclays cleverly make out that this transaction took place on the day they are claiming the money which was already taken 3 days before hand. This in turn then puts the customer in over drawn if a DD or whatever was to hit their account forcing them to be overdrawn by this payment made 3 days earlier but taken on that day and they state, Hey, we are doing you favour paying this for you. so you will pay us £8 per guaranteed payment. Nice little earner and clever, but not clever enough!!! they then hit you with further £8 payments for DD they bounce when you are in credit according to your statement, but your not if you have spent the money on your card and this waiting to leave your account. which they class as payments made 3 days before. Double whammy hits all round.

[Amethyst]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Okay got a bit confuddled there ladidi sorry.

Small Debit card payments do get hold with the company you are paying for a few days a lot of the time and don't immediatly come off your balance.

Is thats whats been happening to you ?

Did you manage to opt out of the reserve thingy yet?

[Ladidi]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Hiya Ame,

Sorry so late in getting back to replying, was busy shopping and then sortin out the family.

I cannot opt out of their new product because they state that is their new £8 fees set for everyone. According to Barclays..

Anyway, say on Monday you have £200 in your account and you need purchase new car insurance and you find a deal that requires you pay £65 on this day. You do this paying with your DD card. Your new available balance if £135.

On Tuesday, you have a credit of £100 paid in so your new available balance is £235. You go shopping and spend £100 and take out cash for the week for other things of £50 and put £50 of petrol in your car so you have spent £200 in total and you have £35 left in available funds but your balance states £100 because you still have the £65 for the car in surance which is in the suspense account waiting to be collected, it stays in the suspense account for a total of 7 days if not collected it is returned to the account.

Now on Wednesday, you have a DD hit the account you forgotton about for £45 which then takes you £10 overdrawn and the debit card payment you agreed on Monday also hits the account for £65. Now because you have gone over drawn, the bank now deem this as payment made on Wednesday and NOT Monday, therefore as they are guaranteeing this payment they are going to charge you £8 for this service because there was not enough money in your account to meet the payment. But the payment was already paid and agreed on Monday other wise purchase could not have gone ahead in the first place. So what are they guaranteeing????? The only thing they should be charging for is the DD payment as this is what caused the overdrawn. but they dont, they state not enough funds was in to cover this and hit you with a guaranteed payment instead and then commission of £8 which forces you even more over drawn than you should be because they take the money from your accout or rather add to the balance until credit hits and take the whole lot there and then..

My argument was clear.. You are not guaranteeing anything as I cannot spend what is not there the card system declines the payment requested as in sufficent funds and tells you to contact your bank. So as payment is made when funds are in the account, they are guaranteeing nothing..I stated if my card said guaranteed payment on the back and I said to the person I am paying, it is ok if there is not enough money in the account as my bank are guaranteeing my payment and I pay them for this service, but as I do NOT have such a service they guaranteeing nothing and are taking money for payments already made and agreed 3 days earlier. The manager agreed with me and said I was right but nothing he could do and I would have to file the complaint..

Complaint filed, but not holding my breath as I have a feeling they bamboozle me with so much inuendo I wont have clue what they are talking about, but I made it quite clear I refuse to go quietly and they have til Friday to come back to me.

[shooter]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Just a quick question Ladidi,

Were the funds that were credited Cash, Cheque, or was it a bacs payment (ie wages, benefits and the like)?

Most banks still take several days for the funds that are paid in to show as cleared funds on your account and although your balance would state £235 your actual available balance would only be £135 so if you spend 150 on your card and take out £50 you would then go overdrawn in actuality even though on paper you still had a credit balance.

Well thats my understanding anyway.

Hopefully this makes sense to you and helps you.

Shooter

[Ladidi]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Hiya Shooter,

The payment that hit the account was a bacs payment and the money was available there and then.

I dont mind paying for sevices I find are useful to me or I have requested them, But I do mind when I am being scammed, and I believe the bank is doing exactly that when they are charging me for something I had already paid 3 days earlier..

[shooter]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Hiya Shooter,

The payment that hit the account was a bacs payment and the money was available there and then.

I dont mind paying for sevices I find are useful to me or I have requested them, But I do mind when I am being scammed, and I believe the bank is doing exactly that when they are charging me for something I had already paid 3 days earlier..

Knowing that then I totally agree with you that this is deceiptful behaviour. Wonder if the FSA and OFT know thats what they are doing as it may well affect the waiver on the test case.

I also wonder if it is possible to get a breakdown of your account in time order from the bank showing the order and timing of all transactions. I don't know how but hopefully some one else does know how to with out having to SAR them.

I know that with my bank, LLoyds all out going leave my account before anything is credited so sometimes they bounce payments on a day that my benefits are paid in even though they know it's a regular credit to the account hence creating charges on the account unfortunately I beleive that it is in the T&C's that thats how they work because payments leave the account at approx 1-3am and credit go in at about 5-6am and that is why they state that cleared funds should be in the account at least on the day before a DD or SO.

I hope that you are able to sort this out and get back the charge that were unwarrented.

Good Luck

Shooter x

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

Laididi, the bank didn't guarantee the payment, you as the individual have guaranteed the payment HOWEVER, the problem we have is the way the payment is processed. I think the problem is the technology involved. There are other issues such as cardholder not present transactions and the way they are processed, at times in error by the companies themselves that when they do correctly process the payment have indeed caused the available funds originally set aside temporarily to become available. I am sorry that this seems a complicated explanation but I do know it happens and I do understand what you mean as well. I wish I had thought about this with regards to LB submission re PCA study.

[killersla]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

i have the same problem with abbey they told me £60 of charges were going to come out of my account lets say on the 20th, now on the 19th i still have lets say £10 credit so i fill the car up for a tenner, now the next day the charges come out and 2 days later after i paied for the petrol the tenner comes out and becuase of the charges there isnt enough money there to pay for it even though there was when the transaction took place but it wasnt taken from my account till 3 days later when no funds avaible so i get charged OMG.

Do abbey or (the banks) state in there terms and conditions that payments by card do not complate straight away and can take a couple of days to complete, its like your drawn into a false sense of security, surley this is wrong?:cry:

[Ladidi]

Re: Judgment is IN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 8th October 2008

i have the same problem with abbey they told me £60 of charges were going to come out of my account lets say on the 20th, now on the 19th i still have lets say £10 credit so i fill the car up for a tenner, now the next day the charges come out and 2 days later after i paied for the petrol the tenner comes out and becuase of the charges there isnt enough money there to pay for it even though there was when the transaction took place but it wasnt taken from my account till 3 days later when no funds avaible so i get charged OMG.

Do abbey or (the banks) state in there terms and conditions that payments by card do not complate straight away and can take a couple of days to complete, its like your drawn into a false sense of security, surley this is wrong?:cry:

I personally think this is wrong, the behaviour of banks when dealing with this type of transaction is wrong. If you make a payment by DD card on the 1st of the month for £65 the money is agreed there and then and you are given a reference number for this payment and time as it was agreed.

Therefore if this was a debt payment for example the company was trying to state they were taking payments 3 days later it would be deemed as inaccurate and false as you have a reference number which should coincide with the details of the payment showing taken 3 days earlier.

I think the banks have thought this a was a cleverly desguised scam when this is out rageous and pure robbery. The payment has been agreed, banks are helping themselves willy nilly and putting customers more and more over drawn does not help one bit especially as day before you have enough money and then suddenly you dont because they have taken money you didn`t account for.

If the banks are going skint, it`s about time they all stopped paying themselves rediculous bonuses and robbing the hard working and less well off to pay for it all..