Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

[Amethyst]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

oh yes and that bit

[Celestine]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

I do recall the discussion about 'free banking' came up during the meeting. The concept that 20% of account holders incur charges and therefore 'support' the free banking model for the other 80%.
We pointed out that the 20% were often the most vulnerable. e.g. Lost their job, got ill, got divorced, on benefits etc.
I think it was then that the Ulster Banks charging structure was referred to as a positive example.

[Amethyst]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

Can we set up a thread explaining the Ulster Bank model please.

Ulster BANK - UK T&Cs & Charges
http://www.ulsterbank.co.uk/content/...d_interest.pdf

Ulster BANK - Eire T&Cs & Charges
http://www.ulsterbank.ie/content/ri/...d_Interest.pdf

[Budgie]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

The Ulster Bank's chargies are actually the highest of any of the Eire Banks.

However their charges are actually at a level between 1/4 and 1/3rd of the UK Banks.

So they are seen as the bad boys in Eire but a postive example for us. LOL

Budgie

[Celestine]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

Can we set up a thread explaining the Ulster Bank model please.

Ulster BANK - UK T&Cs & Charges
http://www.ulsterbank.co.uk/content/...d_interest.pdf

Ulster BANK - Eire T&Cs & Charges
http://www.ulsterbank.ie/content/ri/...d_Interest.pdf

Comparison thread here: Eire Banking System v UK Banking System - Legal Beagles

[righty]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

All very good but I was thinking more along the lines of benefits being sacrosanct. As those on benefits are compelled by the government to have a bank account in order to receive them is it right that the banks should take them when the cost to them is minuscule in relation to their charge.

It's not as if they are actually ever going to pay the DD if it exceeds the balance available is it. There's no thought given to the decision not to pay is there

[Tools]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

I agree with you righty, it is disgusting that they remove charges from benefits, however, whenever we have advised someone who is in this situation we stress that getting benefit payments moved into a post office account is the best option. There is no requirement for someone in receipt of benefits to have it paid into a bank account. I would advise anyone on benefits incurring charges from their bank to redirect their money into a post office account or at least a seperate basic bank account with no debits being taken from it.

[righty]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

1st there not always a post office available & they are getting fewer & fewer so that's not always an option particularly for those in rural communities

2nd if any account, including a basic one, accepts DD then charges will be applied if there is insufficient funds. In other words you will be the unwilling recipient of an overdraft to cover the banks charges, not your expenditure

[Tools]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

1st there not always a post office available & they are getting fewer & fewer so that's not always an option particularly for those in rural communities

2nd if any account, including a basic one, accepts DD then charges will be applied if there is insufficient funds. In other words you will be the unwilling recipient of an overdraft to cover the banks charges, not your expenditure

The closure of post offices across the country is also a national scandal. Unfortunately because the government no longer wish to issue "giros" and are intent on what they class to be "financial inclusion" this has no doubt been one of the major factors in the closure of many post offices. I take your point regarding rural communities but on the other hand you are more likely to have a post office there than a bank. With many people using telephone/internet banking it would be a great help if the post office could come up with something similar allowing you to pay bills directly from your post office account where funds are available. They could also devise an ATM card that allows you to withdraw cash from any cash machine (i.e a Link/Maestro card) that will not allow withdrawals beyond £0.00

The basic account I mentioned, this was assuming that no debits other than branch withdrawals could take place, i.e not have the facility to set up DD`s.

When sailing close to the wind financially DD`s can be the worst thing for a consumer, triggering many charges and starting the snowball effect. A basic account should be exactly that, money paid in and taken out in person over the counter or if funds are available via a cash machine and No overdraft facility

[righty]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

If there is no DD facility the vulnerable consumer is penalized twice as the utilities amongst others charge an additional sum, usually £5 per month, for handling cash or cheque payments

[Amethyst]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

Righty your earlier post prompted me to post again about Think Banking as a possible model for future basic accounts. Have a read would appreciate your thoughts.

[righty]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

Ame sorry to be thick but read of what??

[Amethyst]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

Build your perfect bank account. - Legal Beagles
and
Think Banking Account ????????? - Legal Beagles

[strangewayofsavin]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

This is all superb work, and a massive step in the right direction, BUT, did any body ask:
"Due to the current economic climate, will the government, twist the OFT's arm to go lightly or delay any desicion against the banks etc, until they have got over their current lose in profits?"
Because we all know, the poor banks need propping up at present, with our gladly paid taxes, so the share holders can have their much deserved Ferrari 430 spider, for going to the shops on a Sunday for their copy of the Sunday Observer.:ballchain:

[EXC]

Re: Beagles meet the OFT - 22nd September 2008

This is all superb work, and a massive step in the right direction, BUT, did any body ask:
"Due to the current economic climate, will the government, twist the OFT's arm to go lightly or delay any desicion against the banks etc, until they have got over their current lose in profits?"
Because we all know, the poor banks need propping up at present, with our gladly paid taxes, so the share holders can have their much deserved Ferrari 430 spider, for going to the shops on a Sunday for their copy of the Sunday Observer.:ballchain:

In my view there would be nothing to be achieved in asking the question even though it is a valid consumer concern. They're not likely to say yes and by asking the question it ccould be inferred that we believe the OFT is capable of being manipulated. Having said that I did ask them a similar question last year but in a meeting setting when we are trying to build a relationship it wouldn't have gon down too well I suspect!

Personally I think they're a pretty independent bunch as government departments go.


From: EXC
Sent: 19 December 2007 08:45
To: Kate Farrow
Cc: Emily Woodman
Subject: Guardian Article



Dear Kate/Emily

According to an article in yesterday's Guardian some high street banks who are interested in buying parts of Northern Rock would be seeking some kind of deal with regard to the capping of overdraft charges.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...k.creditcrunch

The article states:

"The banks which agreed to participate in any break-up plan would be expected to exact a price for their support. They would demand
reassurance that they would not suffer financial loss as a result and hope to receive a sympathetic hearing from the government which has previously hit the sector with a range of reviews - starting with Don Cruickshank's industry-wide inquiry and culminating in capping overdraft charges - aimed at denting their profitability."

This is would of course be of great concern. Could you give me some kind of reassurance that the OFT would not succumb to any political pressure that would effect the outcome of the test case and the final determination of the level and nature of overdraft charges.

Many thanks

Nick




----- Original Message ----- From: Kate Farrow
To: EXC
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 12:53 PM
Subject: RE: Guardian Article

Dear Nick

The OFT is the UK's independent consumer and competition authority. Our mission is to make markets work well for consumers. It is in order to make the personal current account market work well for consumers that we are conducting the market study and the investigation and test case under the UTCCRs. We do expect to understand the wider context of consumer interests in the market, hence the market study, but we will do that independently, not in response to any political pressure.

You have commented favourably on OFT's positive approach recently on the test case. Let's see how we get on when it gets into court mid-January (we currently anticipate it starting on the 16th).

Have a very good Christmas,

Regards